Deep Space Wine: A Star Trek Deep Space Nine Companion
Like a fine wine, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine has only gotten better with age. Join us as we recap and decode every episode of the overlooked stepchild of the Star Trek universe. Each episode we share a bottle of wine, wind down, and then wind ourselves up again with our strong opinions about DS9. Because, in our social experience, people love nothing more than when someone talks at length about Star Trek or wine.
Deep Space Wine: A Star Trek Deep Space Nine Companion
A Special Place in Hell: BATTLE LINES (1.12)
Kai Opaka, the spiritual leader we all deserve, returns to DS9 to suffer a tragic crash and embrace a messianic destiny. We trace the episode’s influences from Greek mythology to the New Testament to Dante’s Inferno. Also covered: Sisko’s daddy energy, and Star Trek’s toxic relationship with cave sets.
A Special Place in Hell: BATTLE LINES (1-12)
Cole: [00:00:00] you and I are probably going to end up, like He was the one who's, up to his knees in water, but when he bends down to drink, it recedes and, there's food hanging off the tree, but when he reaches up, it pulls away.
I have that nightmare all the time. Well, you better clean up your actually. No, never.
Lily: Hi everyone, I'm Lily Rossen and I'm Cole Paulson and welcome to Deep Space Wine, a podcast that attempts to recap and decode every episode of Deep Space Nine, the forgotten stepchild of the Star Trek universe. Each episode, we will share a bottle of wine, wind down, and then wind ourselves up again with our strong opinions about DS9.
Because in our social experience, there is nothing people love more than when someone talks at length about Star Trek or wine.
Cole: Or a differential magnetomers. Don't get me Do [00:01:00] not speak to me about that, ever. This is the worst Technobabble yet, and it's ironic because it's actually a very spiritual episode too, and somehow they just ply it with Technobabble at the same time.
Yeah,
Lily: did they feel like they had to have a dichotomy between the spirituality
Cole: they're like, let's not scare the nerds off with our religion, let's make sure there's enough differential magnetomer talk to keep them engaged. Boo.
Lily: Boo I say.
Cole: It's rough.
Lily: Episode 12. Battle Lines.
Cole: Battle Lines. this is the most original series vibe of any. episode yet.
Lily: Thematically, aesthetically.
Cole: Yeah, it's operating on this sort of parable level, this allegory that's just a little too removed from plausibility. And pretty on the nose. Right. Yeah. The original series also loved talking about the senselessness of war.
Yeah. Forever wars are a theme that have come up over and over again in Star Trek. wars that have just been fought for so long, people have forgotten why they're even [00:02:00] fighting. Sure.
Lily: guess that's topical.
Cole: It's always topical, Lily. Mmm. I was thinking this, came out in the 90s when Balkans were breaking up, uh, and Americans were trying to understand what the heck they were even fighting about, and unfortunately since then it's very easy to name wars, where it's just grievance and from the outside it's difficult to understand why, they're letting themselves continue fighting.
I mean, there's always a war
Lily: And what is it good for? Absolutely nothing. People killing, people dying. Oh shit, I was doing my own bit. Absolutely nothing. Alright, is this another singing episode?
Cole: We're a musical now.
Lily: Facts.
Cole: You're welcome. Um. Thank God for Camille Saviola. Oof. The actress who plays Kai Opaka.
Lily: She's amazing. I could look at her face all day every day. She is eminently watchable. She is the shining beacon of this episode. Thank the
Cole: prophets. Yeah. made me really sad though that they killed her off quote unquote.
Lily: Well I, put down some bullet points and things I was thinking about in this episode and my one [00:03:00] is The one good thing about Bajoran religion is taken away from
Cole: us.
Right? Yeah. And I get, I've heard the producers say, that it was freeing to introduce a villain so that the Bajoran Starfleet tension was really ratcheted up with, uh, Nurse Ratchet? Oh, I didn't even mean to do that. With Louise Fletcher as Kai Wynn, aka Nurse Ratchet. but, there's this beautiful relationship with Sisko and Kai Opaka, and with Kira and Kai Opaka here, even.
Lily: and it just, she, I mean, she's got charisma with everyone.
Cole: Oh yeah. With me, I'm ready to worship at the Temple of Kyle Park. I know. I love her. Yeah. So guess that is the saving grace of this episode. Yeah,
Lily: it is.
Cole: she does a lot, but it just makes me bummed that, it ushers in. Wynn, who, I don't know, maybe it's everyone's favorite villain.
We love to
Lily: hate her, but I would have liked, maybe season one, they could have created some stakes by letting us enjoy the Bajoran religion.
Cole: So bizarrely, the pitch for this episode had nothing to do with the Kai. The pitch was just, they go down to this planet and some random ensign dies, like a red shirt.
[00:04:00] But they're like, oh, the audience will see through that or they won't care about this ensign. So who's a recurring character that we can kill off? Yeah, and they're like, um, the Kai? And that was the only reason, originally, that she is the centerpiece of this episode. Look,
Lily: it creates It's stakes for sure, because if Redshirt had died, this episode would just be totally boring.
Cole: Insufferable. But it is, crazy to me that they're like, how can we make this one episode good? I know, kill off this fantastic character. It is what it is.
. So I guess I can give you my take on this episode.
Lily: Tell me your thesis because, among other bullet points about this episode, I've just written cave episodes.
Gosh, it
Cole: is just one long hangout in a cave. So also, I got War is Hell from it, right? Sure. Which is something we hear and see in fiction over and over again, but man, this episode really goes hard for War is Hell. If you think about it, the moon really is hell. It has these people who have been Sentenced there for their crimes, doomed to suffer their torment forever and ever
they're there to suffer a [00:05:00] Sisyphean fate, if you will. You know Sisyphus down in Hades? He's the guy who's pushing the boulder up the hill and whenever it gets to the top, the boulder rolls down. And these people are just, stuck in this task over and over again that'll never end. Yeah, in this horrible loop.
so I was like, okay, the moon is hell. and this is maybe the most spiritual or religious Star Trek gets.
Lily: Yeah, , it's definitely got some strong Christian allegory.
Cole: Yes. Yes. Okay, do you know what the harrowing of hell is? No. So, the word harrow I guess means to raid or plunder.
Mmm. And so the harrowing of hell is supposedly when Jesus body was in the tomb for three days, his spirit went down to hell. and communed with the dead there and saved their souls.
Lily: Wow, they did not tell me about this in
Cole: Catholic school. Well, it's only hinted at in a few Bible verses.
Matthew 12, 40, For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth. God. and it says the gospel [00:06:00] was proclaimed even to the dead so that they might live in the Spirit as God does.
Lily: Whoa! We do not talk about that enough.
Cole: Right? Well it makes sense, if you died before Jesus showed up and saved you, then you should get a shot at salvation. So it's like, oh yeah, and all the people who died before the crucifixion, listen to Jesus when he shows up in Hades. Sure, sounds fair. But okay, think about this episode.
Kai Opaka, this spiritual figure, is killed. She goes down to this hellish moon. Mhm. She's resurrected. then she makes it her mission to save the souls of everyone on the moon. Yeah. It's very
Lily: Christian. I mean, we all knew that Kai Opaka was Jesus, and it's been confirmed. Exactly.
Cole: Amen. God bless you, Kai Opaka.
So, I thought, just in the spirit of hellishness, during the recap, I'll be taking us on a tour of hell. Great! through history and its interpretations through art. Great. just think of me as Virgil. to your Dante. Yeah. That's a, um, medieval Italian literature reference for you nerds out there.[00:07:00]
Lily: I mean, who doesn't know Dante's Inferno?
Cole: Great. Have you ever studied it? A little bit, yeah. Okay, great.
Lily: I actually, when I was at university, I accidentally signed up for a course on Dante's Inferno.
But the whole thing was in Italian. And then I just quietly snuck out in the first lecture.
Cole: Also medieval Italian. Yeah,
Lily: Look, it looked really interesting, but,
Cole: you know. It's juicy. I studied it in undergrad, in the
Lily: English. I mean, I did. Did a little bit in English as well.
.
so hell yeah, I'll see you there.
Cole: See you in hell, baby. We're going straight there
Lily: Before we do that should we
Cole: get sozzled. I think we may as well have a sinful evening if that's where we're headed.
Lily: Great.
tonight we're drinking a 2022 Shiraz. That's right, I said a Shiraz. Yeah, I thought Shiraz
Cole: was Not my bag. Frowned upon by people like you. People like me. People with discerning taste.
Lily: No, people with discerning tastes are well known to enjoy a [00:08:00] Shiraz. It's just not for me on account of I grew up in Western Australia and the cheap booze available to me was cheap Shiraz.
So this is what I got drunk on in my youth.
This
Cole: is
Lily: Very, very cheap Shiraz that, just gives you, wine mouth instantly, dries everything up, kind of tastes like vinegar. so I totally ruined my palate for it. Right. so that's the main reason I don't drink Shiraz, but I hear it's great.
Cole: Yeah, similar to why I don't drink cider anymore because that's how I celebrated the end of my master's. Celebrated very well.
Lily: Oh, you sinful sinner.
So this Shiraz, it's from a producer called Battles. See what I did there? Oh, well done. this is another WA wine.
This wine is a combination of fruit from Geograph, which is from a place called Donnybrook in the southwest of Australia. And also fruit from, Perth Hills, a place called Chittering. I've been to Chittering. Have you been to Chittering? It's lovely. Ah, yeah, Perth Hills are lovely. I [00:09:00] was, there this last weekend.
Actually drinking a Battles Chardonnay, which was really delicious, so this is from the producers. It is dark red and black fruit, spice and vibrant tenants, medium bodied with fine Integrated tannins.
Hmm, So Shiraz, what do you know about it?
Cole: It's named after, in modern day Iran.
Yes. Yes. Great. And it's a red wine. And it's the same as Syrah. Yes. Yes.
Lily: Oh, very good. yeah, so these words are kind of used interchangeably, but in Australia, we don't use the term Syrah, we use term Shiraz, and I don't really know why, actually it's a pretty old grown varietal in Australia.
It was brought over in like the 1830s. so it's been around here for a while.
Cole: Shiraz just sounds, uh, it has more zhuzh
Lily: to it. Well, I was thinking It kind of sounds good in a Bogan Aussie accent.
Cole: Do that for us. Like, Shiraz. Do you want a
Lily: Shiraz? Shiraz. Yeah. And then you give one to
Cole: [00:10:00] Shaz. Oh,
shaz is bringing the Shiraz. Yeah, or
Lily: Daz, Darren. Um,
Cole: you can lop off any name by turning it into Az. Yes. Like Laz and Kaz. Yeah. Jake and Shiraz. Yeah. Great. God bless Australians. Y'all are so weird.
Lily: We're charming.
Prophets bless you.
Shiraz actually has a pretty good reputation around the world. particularly. quite famous is, Shiraz from Barossa in South Australia, and it's all made in, more of a New World style, such as wines from South Africa, and this is because of the hot climate, that we have here, rather than Syrah from somewhere like the Rhone wine region in, Southern France, for example.
Okay. And that's what I've got to say about that, and let's, dive into this piece with nostalgia for my. Early to late teens.
Cole: To the battle What's a battle quote?
Lily: It's battle quote. famous Shakespearean one?
Cole: Yeah, once more under the breach. Yeah. Fortune favors the bold. Yeah. Great. Peppery. That is, oh, I love a Shiraz. This is your kind of wine, isn't it? [00:11:00] Yes, I love a good peppery,
Lily: rich Shiraz. I have not been giving you your kind of wine. I've been giving you my kind of wine.
Cole: You've been expanding what my kind of wine is.
Lily: I've been feeling like I've been turning my nose up at this ridiculously popular wine and, gotta try it, you know, see what the fuss is about.
What do you reckon? Um, it's not
Cole: for me. No, this is a beautiful Well, there goes our endorsement from Battle. is,
Lily: this is a beautiful wine.
Cole: God, I love it. look, more from me.
And um, maybe it's appropriate for this episode because you don't really like the wine and you didn't really like the episode,
Lily: so.
That was another thing I thought we'd tie it together. Really?
Cole: I think this episode is trying to say more than maybe any other episode we've Covered thus far. So let's see if it tells us things.
Lily: It's trying, it's trying. It's
Cole: trying, but it's also sort of, striking the nail with a very large hammer. Yeah. .
it's a little preachy to tie in with the religion theme. It's
Lily: preachy. It's on the nose. Yeah.
Cole: [00:12:00] Just like, notes of pepper in this wine.
Lily: kind of enjoying this.
Cole: Good. Shiraz.
Lily: I mean, what am I going to like next? Pizza? Friends?
Cole: Did you mean like having social connections or the sitcom? The sitcom. I'm still holding out hope that you're going to enjoy having friends.
Lily: Devastating.
Cole: Alright, shall I fire this bad boy up? Let's do it. Battle Lines. Battle Lines, here we
Lily: go.
Alright, so we open on a hilarious scene in Sisko's office. Sisko, Dax, discussing the fact that those messy Cardassians left files about Bajoran personnel on the computer. Presumably for the Federation to find. Is this some kind of psychological warfare? Or is it just, like, being a bitch?
Cole: And it's never really followed up.
It's just this hilarious throwaway
Lily: scene. Yeah, yeah. Another thing that I love about DS9, they'll often tease us with something with no follow [00:13:00] up. Sisko warns Kira that she might be disappointed with the info that they have on her. But Kira says, I'm a big girl.
Cole: I'm a big girl, Commander. Alright, Billie, I have to confess.
Nanaa Visitor's acting in this episode is just the worst. . It is unbearable. Undeniably terrible.
Lily: Starts here. Welcome. Welcome.
Cole: does this thing where she just hangs her jaw open to express extreme emotion. She does it like three times but each time for a different emotion Yeah. all right, sorry, but she's a big girl and she can read that file.
Yeah.
Lily: And we will revisit her terrible acting many times.
Cole: So yeah, Kira goes to read the file and then everyone else in the room just flees. Like they vacate the room.
Lily: Bashir comes through to Sisko letting him know that Quite unexpectedly, the Kai, Kai Opaka, has arrived at the station.
And Sisko looks so freaking happy at this news. Um, just like us, because Kai Opaka is the best. She's great! Sisko knows it. she wants a tour of the station that Sisko offered in Episode 1. [00:14:00] That's why she's there. Then Kira storms out of Sisko's office and yells, with the mouth open thing Kola's describing, a minor operative whose activities are limited to running errands for the terrorist leaders.
she's like, but daddy, I'm a real badass. I'm like a mean, mean terrorist.
Cole: serves the purpose of reminding viewers that she was in the resistance, and she also takes great pride in it. Which I guess is
Lily: useful.
Sure, it sets up some of the tension in this episode for Kira's character,
Cole: I suppose. Yeah, but it also shows that she, um, He's actually behaving like a bratty teenager.
Lily: And look, we all feel that way around Sisko, so I get it.
He does have real daddy energy.
I told you, I'm on board with Sisko being a daddy, and you're on board with Nana being terrible at acting, and all is right with the world.
Cole: Yeah, finally, we've come around. Episode 12, here we are. We've been
Lily: evolving, you and I. Kai Opaka is greeted by Kira, Bashir, and Sisko, and she just looks serene and unflappable.
However, Bashir comments that she looks preoccupied, [00:15:00] and we all know Bashir is known for his insight into women. Savage. But maybe he's right, because Kai Opaka stops to contemplate the space where the wormhole is. And also, to contemplate prophecy, as she tells Kira. Sisko lets her know that the wormhole can only be viewed when a ship is going through the wormhole.
and then Opaka and Sisko share a special private look of fondness that could thaw the most frozen of hearts.
Cole: God, mine. I know.
Lily: and he then arranges to have a runabout taken through the wormhole so that Kai Opaka can see it in earnest and go to the Gamma Quadrant. And as usual, Bashir manages to wrangle an invitation to something he definitely wasn't invited to.
Cole: Yeah, he literally just hangs there looking like a sad puppy until he's invited along. Yeah,
Lily: I mean We've established that, Sisko is, daddy energy and clearly Bashir has been picking up on that for the past 12 episodes. And this episode he's really trying to prove some things to dad.
Cole: Wow. There's some nice Bashir growth in this episode , it begins. Yeah. [00:16:00]
Lily: Why not start with just trying to impress Sisko? It's as good a place as any. So,
Cole: again, with Camille Saviola's acting, she commands this quiet power. The way she just turns around and stares at Sisko, and everyone in the room knows that she wants to get into the wormhole.
this soft serenity that can dominate the room, the
Lily: beauty of silence in a position of power. I actually had, um. One of the first kitchens I worked in was all male, which is pretty common. Right. so I was the only woman and it was lots of Italian men.
It was very shouty and yelly and everyone, it was always carrying on and, yelling things. and then we got a sous chef who was a woman and she came in and she never raised her voice. And in a big kitchen, One technique is to yell out the orders when they come in. Yeah, you know like yes chef five
Cole: gnocchi I've been watching the bear lately.
Yeah, I mean that's I know all about kitchens. Go on, that's all you have
Lily: to know but she the dockets would come through and then she would just say it so quietly So then the kitchen had to always be quiet so you could hear the call when it came through Yeah, and it's a very [00:17:00] powerful technique.
Yeah, and I feel like that's the energy that Akka has, like Kai gets it, she is commanding the space and making you make space for her
Cole: oh, yeah, it forces you to be quite in a presence and to really listen.
Um, To be still and
Lily: notice,
Cole: yeah. Yeah, it commands deference. Because if you're talking over her, then you're looking like a Bashir ish jerk. And
Lily: missing what she has to say.
Yep.
Cole: have we discussed the Kai's wardrobe? We haven't.
Lily: And I don't think we discussed it in episode
Cole: one.
No, I don't think so. I'm a fan. I'm a huge fan.
Lily: Is this fuchsia? Definitely fuchsia. it's definitely all, winter jewel tones, which I think suits her.
Cole: heavily nun inspired. Yes. She's got that habit. She's got that
Lily: wimple. Yeah. The wimple.
Cole: They're clearly drawing the connections with the Catholic Church.
Yeah.
Lily: But with some bling, there's some bling. There's sort of like a bit of a sarong situation,
Lily: I sort of see a bit of a sari in this as well, maybe.
Cole: Oh yeah, that's a great call and the brightness of colors. By the way, I love when she's staring out at the wormhole.
She's clutching that necklace, [00:18:00] which is a really nice touch.
Lily: because in the next scene, um, O'Brien waits at the runabout for Sisko and the others and is approached by the Kai, who. Knows for some reason that O'Brien has a daughter and gifts this necklace to him to give to Molly.
Cole: It's kind of my favorite moment of the episode.
But, why does she do it? The Kai's motivations and actions they're mystical and they're not explained. She's getting on that runabout like she knows it's the last runabout she's going to get on. I guess it's almost a trope of giving away your earthly possessions when you're getting ready to pass into the next world.
You know, it's very Gandalf and Frodo giving up their stuff before they're getting on the boat into the West, right? She's been staring into those orbs, she knows something's gonna go down in the Gamma Quadrant, and she has peace of mind about it. I think that's what this is telling us.
Lily: Yeah, was sort of hoping that she had no foreknowledge of O'Brien having a daughter, so this is like some kind of witchy par.
Cole: I think it's kind of implied because why else would she know about O'Brien?
I mean,
Lily: he does bandy about his personal life to anyone that will listen to
Cole: him. [00:19:00] Which actually reminds me, I wanted to say in the very first scene, he's kind of a messy gossip bitch again. Totally. Because they find the file and he's like, just make sure Kira doesn't see it, as the door is loudly opening and Kira walks in.
You know Kira, she's
Lily: a real firecracker.
Cole: You messy gossip chief bitch. He loves it. He loves it.
Lily: And what I would have loved is if this ever came up again, or say like Molly was wearing the necklace one time.
I know. But, , I guess not. O'Brien. Pockets it and, you know, pops it or something, or a
Cole: dartboard. DS9 can be pretty impressive with continuity, and it is a shame that we don't see the necklace again. It's
Lily: like when you're doing a close watch on PropWatch and they don't deliver the Easter egg that you're hoping for
Cole: in the next six seasons.
In our defense, I found an entire Reddit thread about that necklace.
We're not alone. Great.
Lily: It's every one of us.
so the runabout takes off and that's the teaser. I'm teased. I am sort of teased.
Cole: I'm I'm ready to listen to any soft Kai has to say to me the rest of the episode. [00:20:00] I wouldn't
Lily: mind if she told me what to do in my life.
Cole: Exactly. Yeah.
Lily: So Kai, and Bashir enter the wormhole, and is this the first time we've Have you seen the inside of the wormhole since Emissary? Maybe.
Cole: Yeah. But it's definitely the first time that Kai is seeing it.
It's
Lily: really something and Kai Opaka thinks it's too. This is
Cole: the first time that Kai has ever left Bajor. Yeah. And now she's going through the Temple of Her Prophets.
Lily: she is, babe pig in the city.
Cole: I love her expression after she's passed through the wormhole. Just this look of tearful wonder and
Lily: sisko and Bashir explain just how very, very far away they are now from the station. It's just so far. Where are we? I think Kai
Cole: doesn't care at all. At all.
She's like, mhm, yeah, that's nice. I'm not here for the Gamma Quadrant stuff. I'm here for the Prophets. Look,
Lily: she's, she's a patient lady. but then she dropped some hints, that she wanted to come here because of a prophecy. And Sisko doesn't take the bait because Sisko just isn't emissary enough at this [00:21:00] stage in the series.
Well, she's been super vague. She is, but I think later in the series he would be all over that shit. Very true. But at this point in time he just feels fond of her. they're about to return through the wormhole when Kira picks up a subspace signal. Sisko orders a probe, to check it out and then be picked up later.
But Kyra is thrilled at the opportunity to investigate the situation, saying, Please, Commander, I don't get out often, and she's so earthy and
Cole: mean, she's got a death wish. she knows something's supposed to happen, and then she makes it happen.
It's almost a self fulfilling prophecy. She's like, no, we're not going back yet. We are investigating this strange signal. But she knows the fates. She also makes it happen, though. It's, look, guess you're not supposed to overthink mystical prophecies. But she basically wills this death to happen.
Lily: Sure. Someone like, maybe, Jesus?
Cole: You know what? Touche.
Lily: Yeah,
Cole: Like, he's had his last supper, and then he goes to the Garden of Gethsemane. And he's like, hey, police, I'm over here. Hey, yeah,
Lily: you can't fight it. It's what the prophets have in store for you.
Yep Ah, it's just [00:22:00] good. He just can't say no to this lady and he agrees to take a look so they find a moon and There's some satellites going haywire, and also there's some signs of humanoid life, but oh no, the satellites don't like them and fire at them, and we get some, some of the best shaking acting.
The hearts are shaking. They're like grabbing the seat in front of them. Rolling about on it.
Cole: No one told the Kai to put on a seatbelt.
Lily: Yeah, wow. God, of all the things you were mansplaining Bashir and you couldn't even do that. It's a little preventive
Cole: medicine, anyone?
Lily: so there's a pretty long scene as they're sort of crashing onto the planet.
Yeah, they're all yelling stuff. And there's lots of sci fi babble. and all the while, Opaka looks rapt. She's just in this state of spiritual euphoria, almost. Totally.
Cole: I mean, if you knew I'm accepting her fate. If you knew that you're on the brink of this fate that has been foretold you, Oof.
Brace for impact, And it smacks the surface of the moon.
Lily: And look, it's it's a funky moon that they've landed on. set
Cole: watch! I feel like I've seen these rocks [00:23:00] before.
Lily: Yeah, we've definitely seen this rocky soundstage. It's very, original series and season one. It is.
Cole: They've kept these rocks around since the 60s. Yeah,
Lily: although I was reading that this was at Super expensive episodes, so I don't know.
Maybe it's a brand new soundstage. Well, all
Cole: those stunt actors who show up with their scary knives later. True.
Lily: Um, they all emerge from the crashed runabout, carrying Kai Opaka, but no, she's gone. She's dead. She dead.
Cole: look of shock and horror on her face as she's dying. Again, even in depth, the actress is just killing it.
She's great.
I wrote a bit of an elegy for Kai Opaka in the style of T. S. Eliot.
Lily: Sorry, what?
Cole: And this is the way that Kai's world ends. With a bang and a wimple. Ah! That's beautiful.
Lily: More poetry should have the word wimple in
Oh, and then we've got Kira and just don't attempt sobbing because you can't pull it off.
Cole: Yeah, number [00:24:00] two where her acting just involves having her mouth hang open and this time it's extreme grief and shock.
Lily: It's just hot. Ooh, but what's that from the cave? Emerges some scary looking dudes. Ruh roh,
Cole: it's Mad Max people.
Yeah, they're dirty. They're so dirty.
Lily: Sorry to interrupt your grief,
Cole: Kira. And they're all wearing, like, 1980s Thunderdome. Ooh, fab,
Lily: yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some dusty old leather.
Lily: Um, back on DS9 in Ops, there is a bureaucratic nightmare unfolding. Odo is not pleased.
Kai Opaka's people are on his back about how late the runabout is. What a drag. Dax and O'Brien try to reassure him they're doing everything they can to find the runabout. but Odo, he just doesn't like having to deal with people
Cole: odo is really out of his comfort zone in a PR role. He is freaking out.
Let's
Lily: like, yeah, they could be dead, but don't make me speak to people. I feel you, Odo. Can I just arrest Quark today? Uh, so on the cave moon, In the foreground, a big axe is being
Cole: sharpened.
Oh, by [00:25:00] the way, that axe confirmed, was made out of cardboard. Great. All of the weapons are just cardboard at the end of sticks. It looks
Lily: like it. Yeah. and the crew, uh, pulled into this cave and they're seemingly prisoners. And the people who have captured them. have some more of those half assed face tattoos that we've been seeing.
Which must have been a season one thing. The leader of these people, a people called the Ennis, is a man named Golan
Cole: Shila? Golan Sheila. I mean, really, doubling down the Australian dystopia, Australian apocalypse, like, the leader is Sheila. Sheila! That's
Lily: great! I didn't even put that together. I mean I did, that's why I picked this one.
Cole: Um,
Lily: so he's not a friendly fellow and he seems very weirded out by the mixed alien races. and also what the heck they're doing on this moon. Kira falls down with some kind of injury and blusters about her.
and Sheila apologizes for their behavior, informing Sisko that their people are at war with a brutal enemy who attacks [00:26:00] at whim. And these people are called the Null Ennis, and this is so silly. It's just such a
Cole: dumb thing. They're like the Not Ennis.
Lily: The people and the not people. Yeah, exactly. Dumb.
Cole: it's symbolic, Lily. There's an allegory here and I hope it doesn't pass over your head because it's an important message. Oh gosh. just don't take war for granted, that's all I'm saying. Okay,
Lily: I won't. it's revealed that the moon is a penal colony and uh, Sisko's partisanship, in these sort of warring factions that exist and whether, Sisko intends for them to help one another, with resources and such.
Cole: By the way, When Sheila is welcoming them to this moon, he's like, this is the place where hope goes to die.
And, uh, I think we all know that when Dante and his tour guide Virgil enter the gates of hell in Dante's Inferno, the gate to hell reads, Abandon all hope, ye who enter here. That's awesome. So
Lily: Sheila also did a first year [00:27:00] unit.
Cole: Sheila did some, Western Civ.
Lily: was a long time ago. That's why he's paraphrasing.
Um, Bashir and Kira discuss the senseless nature of Opaka's death, and this time, I actually believe Kira's grief. She's sort of, uh Quiet
Cole: in her grief. She pulls it off. Yeah, yeah. And it is senseless. I mean, I'll say again, why did you kill Apaka off so soon? I'm still mad about it. It's an effectively tragic death, and that's what they were going for.
okay, the extras, by the way, sang their praises in Move Along Home, but they do not bring it this episode. I just Some people
Lily: they pulled
Cole: off the street. This Ennis woman is just looking bored AF.
Lily: Yeah, look she's going for, completely disillusioned by life but it's coming off as she just
Cole: looks a dull day at the office.
She looks real bored
Lily: So then the Null Ennis attack the camp. and are distinguishable from the Ennis by having silly helmets.
Cole: Yeah, they've got these, like, Star Wars New Hope helmets. Yeah, shiny. Yeah.
Lily: Kira is out to prove that she really is a badass terrorist and shoots down some [00:28:00] rocks to kill the gnoll Ennis attackers, which, I found out is a classic Star Trek fighting move.
Oh, really? We get them with some rocks.
Cole: Like phaser the rocks and then the rocks fall down?
Lily: Yeah. you know, maybe push some rocks from
Cole: somewhere. Oh my god, you're so right!
Lily: we recently watched, what's the episode called?
Cole: Arena. Arena. One of the greatest, battles of all time, Quark versus the Gorn.
Lily: Wow, that was a nail biter. Mm. Yeah,
Cole: You're right, dropping rocks on the bad guys. Like, when in doubt, drop some rocks. But okay, it is crazy that Kira just instantly joins this battle. She knows nothing about this war. Drops some boulders on these people who just attacked. It's instinct.
Yeah, it's instinct. It's instinct. rushes into the, the soldier mode. The violence within her. Mmm,
Lily: the Null Ennis Retreat. but then what's this? From around the corner of the cave appears Jesus. No, it's Kyopaka! And she Oh
Cole: my god, it's like emerging from the, Um, it's emerging from the tomb.
I hadn't even thought of that. Yeah. It's this beautiful shot of this, blue lighting and the silhouette emerging from the mist, emerging from the cave. [00:29:00] Yeah, it's ethereal. .
Lily: Bashir checks her over and apparently she seems to be fine.
Weird, cause she was pretty dead before, and Opaka can't remember her death. but she informed Sisko that there is now something biomechanical in Opaka's system that was not there before.
Cole: Um,
Lily: and then while this is happening, slowly the slaughtered Ennis begin to rise from the dead. we're going to talk about how it's kind of a zombie episode.
Okay, but this is And is Jesus canonically a zombie? Is
Cole: Jesus a zombie? it's so disappointing actually, how poorly directed this scene is with all these dead soldiers rising up from the dead. Yeah. It's literally You just see them in the background just standing up again, and, you know, they're all alive.
was just such a missed opportunity of the eeriness of these undead starting to shift and come back. I was actually so mad that I went, and Looked up, a zombie episode from Game of Thrones.
For me.
It's this amazing, battle where the zombies come in and then at the end, the white witch lifts up his hands and all the [00:30:00] fallen soldiers rise with him and it's just the creepiest, eeriest thing . And it's like, guys You've got the source material and you blow it.
Lily: I agree. However, I kind of, not to be an apologist, but I feel like the absolute drudgery of what these aliens are going through, of just routinely killing each other and then rising from the dead, It does become drudgery and that is coming across.
Cole: You're right, for the soldiers it is nothing new and they're like, oh yeah.
Lily: This is another day of zombie
Cole: life. Turns out everyone just comes back to life again, no big.
Lily: meanwhile Dax and O'Brien are out searching for their lost pals and we don't get much Dax and O'Brien time, but we sure do in this episode. And I guess they worked out that was not great and they never did it again.
Cole: For this scene I just wrote techno babble, babble babble, babble babble babble. Every one of their scenes. Babble. But you know, I feel like Terry Farrell is doing her best to imbue some sort of character dynamic. In all the scenes she kind of looks, super annoyed with O'Brien. As he would be.
Yeah. [00:31:00]
Lily: He's just barreling through. They're big old nerds, you feel like they might have something in common, but no, they don't.
Cole: And I guess there's a bit of, workplace tension. She's the science officer, he's the ops officer, and maybe they're trying to outdo each other a little bit.
Sure, can be the cleverest? There's a bit of a clever battle, but that's all there is to say about these super technobabble scenes. Yeah, but there'll be many more. Oh my gosh.
Lily: back on the moon, it is confirmed that the Ennis are kind of zombies. They've all died many times. Bashir wants to investigate further, probably thinking that this is a medical miracle he can claim as his own discovery and put in some journal, I imagine.
Sheila, pontificates that Bashir is acting like this is a breakthrough discovery, but in actuality it's a curse.
Cole: Yeah.
Lily: and just quickly there's some more set watch. The Null Ennis are being held in the world's shittiest jail slash brig. It's like that. It looks like it's made
Cole: of little twigs. Yeah, I know, it's all twig prison.
Lily: but again, it's the drudgery, you know. Whatever, we're all gonna die, and then you just come back, and then you're a prisoner of war, but what are you gonna do? [00:32:00]
Cole: Yeah, so that's this, Sisyphean, Sisyphean sentence they've all been given. This ongoing torture. so, fifth circle of hell in Dante's Inferno is for the wrathful?
And their punishment is to just viciously fight each other forever and ever in a slimy swampy pit. Okay, so that's where we are. Yeah, we're in the fifth ring of hell. maybe, just for fun, you want to hear some of passage of 7 of Dante's Inferno? Yes. Great. All right.
Into a lake, the . Styx named, expands the dismal stream when it hath reached the foot of the gray withered cliffs. In tent I stood to gaze, and in the marish sunk, aspied, a miry tribe, all naked, and with looks betokening rage. They, with their hands, alone, struck not, but with the head, the breast, the feet, cutting each other piecemeal with their fangs.
Forever. It's good. Yeah, it's good stuff. It's alright. [00:33:00] You should hear it in the original Italian.
Lily: Um, so what you're saying is the river Styx, uh, they're using this little gulag, as an allegory for the river Styx. That's why it's made a little styx.
Cole: Great connection. Prop watch! plus on that lit essay.
Yeah, and I guess back on their home planet there was this feud between the Ennis and Null Ennis, and the rest of the planet was like, dude, get over it. So it's like the worst clan feud ever.
Yeah.
Lily: so they're being sent to this prison to serve as a reminder to civilization that this is the futility of war.
Cole: Right, like damned being sent as a lesson to the living of forgiveness and wrath and senseless anger. Yeah. And
Lily: violence. Drinking too much Shiraz. Off you go
Cole: to the sticks.
Uh, that's another ring of hell, baby. And I will see you there. Yeah, woo!
you and I are probably going to end up, like He was the one who's, up to his knees in water, but when he bends down to drink, it recedes and, there's food hanging off the tree, but when he reaches up, it pulls away.
I have that dream all [00:34:00] the time. Oh gosh. It's my worst nightmare. Well, you better clean up your actually. No, never.
Lily: Live for today, I say.
Cole: Live for Shiraz.
Lily: Opaka questions, what started this, eternal war. and Sheila says, Some say it was water, some say it was land.
It's not very relevant now and it's just, he understands the futility, he understands that there's no point to it. You think they would grow tired of fighting each other when there's no end in sight, you cannot kill each
Cole: other. Yeah, I like what they're saying about how a lot of conflicts can start from maybe, uh, resource scarcity or land but then it turns into grievance and then it's self perpetuating cycle of, grievance and vengeance and retribution, is very easy to think of a lot of modern day wars.
Yeah. like that, unfortunately, it's also just game theory. This is textbook game theory. Mm-Hmm. , do you know game theory? Mm-Hmm. So, when and an opponent each have two choices, you could risk making peace [00:35:00] or you could keep fighting. Mm-Hmm. and either of these sides. The risk of trying to make peace is annihilation.
And so they both choose. to keep fighting, together, they choose the worst outcome of just perpetual fighting. When if they worked together, they could actually choose a way forward. Is this the
Lily: same thing as loss aversion? Maybe. That every interaction is either a win or a loss.
Cole: Exactly. Yeah. Same thing. And as they see it, like, The risk of losing everything is too high, so they both just choose to live in this purgatory of, awfulness. It's petty. It's petty. And this is where the parable starts to fall apart for me. say, like, well, the rules of war change when you no longer fear death. But doesn't it suck to get injured over and over again? It can't be fun to bleed your guts out over and over again. I guess when your hatred's that strong. Yeah, I guess that's it. That's, that's what they're preaching to us.
They sure
Lily: are. Sounds like a real bore to me. I know, right? I feel like I would be [00:36:00] that too. Bored extra just like oh god this
Cole: again. You'd be so over it like think of all the different ways you could die I'm
Lily: just gonna lie here and die. How about that? I'm not gonna bother fighting.
Cole: It's very Russian doll actually She was just bored of dying by the end of season one.
Yeah This extra is just wearing Natasha Lyonne's on Wii with death on her face How am I gonna die next that's a great show
Lily: Sisko are sort of, espousing what we're talking about, that fighting has no meaning and it's sort better to just stop but Kira comes in with recommendations about freedom fighting techniques.
Right. she can't see. This parable that's playing out, all she can see is, well, you're not doing it well enough, and that's clearly the problem.
Cole: She starts coaching the anus on better fighting tips.
Lily: But Sisko is very displeased with this. This is not prime directive at all.
Cole: It is instinctual.
She's just like, here's how you can be a better fighter. You just have people
Lily: and blah,
Cole: blah, blah. And then in classic Nanaw acting, she says, Commander, we are trapped with only his forces [00:37:00] between us and damnation! Mm You're all already damned on Moon Hill, Kira. Get used to it. But she won't. This is not your war, Kira.
Lily: Yeah. Sisko explains to Shilla that, He and his crew will be rescued, and he's willing to take people off this moon. And Sheila can't believe it, this is everything he and his people want, which is to live one life and to die. But is that really true? Because the vengeance is so strong.
They could be living a life, be making something of their life on this purgatory. But they're not choosing to. I
Cole: guess at this point, all either side wants is to see the other one eliminated. Yeah. But guess you're not supposed to overthink this too much.
Because there's no such thing as winning if everyone comes back to life. So I guess you're just trying to cause Pain. Pain. Suffering. I mean, Kira's rightfully annoyed that they don't even have guards at the entrance. Well They're so used to dying, it's not even a
Lily: punishment anymore.
Sheila explains that They used to do this. They used to have all the techniques and it, all lost
Cole: meaning. Yeah, and yet the thing that hasn't lost meaning is their enmity. Yeah. Is that the [00:38:00] word? Yeah. Great.
Lily: So Sisko says he can take them off this rock, but the price for that is a ceasefire with the warring people and that's something that Sheila doesn't believe. The rival leader, Zlanko, great
Cole: names in this episode, but he's going to give it a
Lily: Zlanko, clearly not Australian.
Cole: It actually does kind of sound like a, Polish immigrant or something.
Lily: Yeah, I was going to say like a Polish Spirit. Okay.
Cole: Yeah. Oh, like a liquor. Yeah. Like a ghost.
Lily: No, no, no. Like something you drink a shot of.
Cole: I mean, Australia has had its share of senseless enmity between the local Shelah's and the Polish immigrants.
Oh God. It's all there. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's text. Yeah.
Lily: Meanwhile, Dax and O'Brien are still tooling around the Gamma Quadrant. Technobabble, babble, babble, babble. Yes, the scanners aren't working properly, and it's looking like a needle in a haystack. And then O'Brien does some word association. Needle in a haystack! A magnet! more specifically, we need a differential.
Mag, ator, [00:39:00] Mager, Magne. I didn't even write it down. Probably , . and Dak says, I've never heard of it. How does it work? And. O'Brien's like, I'll let you know as soon as I finish making one. I'll let you know when I make it. Such a scoundrel, and you can see why Dax is fed up with it. Dax
Cole: is so annoyed with him.
Lily: and then there's a little scene with, Julian working on the runabout. And he commends himself because no one else will. and he says, nice work, Julian.
Cole: If Bashir does something right and he's all alone, Is he still useless?
Lily: Will, will he ever get approval of daddy?
meanwhile. Lanco, the leader of the Ness has agreed to a ceasefire in discussions, and Kira is raring to go, trying to get her rebel foot in the door and be there for these discussions.
But Sisko orders her to stay with Kai. Mm. And then we a, pretty good scene between Kiran Kaia Parker. This scene
Cole: is beautifully written. Yeah. Beautifully acted by Camille Aviola. . Yes. . Great. And I'll say no more.
Lily: Yeah. [00:40:00] So. Kira sort of looks all at sea and, Kai says, You can't bury it, Kira.
Cole: Kira's like, what? What are you talking
Lily: about? What are you talking about?
Cole: Again with Opaka's, the power of silence. Um, like, what do you mean? And Opaka just stares at her.
Lily: Yeah, letting her come to the answers.
Cole: Impassively. Yeah. She's like a psychologist who just stares at you until you acknowledge all of your neuroses. She just stares at Kira and lets Kira work through this.
Lily: Yeah. It's a good rhetorical
Cole: tool. It really is.
Lily: Kira says, I don't enjoy fighting and I don't want you to think of me as this violent person without a soul, without a conscience. and this is Kai not saying anything to her. This is just, Kira's. perception of herself,
Cole: But,
Lily: I mean, wow. And then Kai Opaka touches Kira's ear, her pa, and apparently it's so soothing and thrilling that Kira falls into the Kai's arms in gratitude, which I want to do as
Cole: well. Dude, I want to fall into the Kai's bosom and I want her to tell me that everything will be okay.
Lily: It's so soothing. and she [00:41:00] says to Kira, don't deny the violence inside of you, Kira, only when you accept it can you move beyond it. so you know, it's, some pretty classic. Advice. Accept yourself.
Cole: your trauma. Yeah, Face your past.
Lily: Kira says, I'm afraid the prophets won't forgive me. And Kai says, They're just waiting for you to forgive yourself.
It's good stuff. It's a great scene. mean, it is very Christianity laden, isn't it?
Cole: I was just thinking through that. I'm trying to decide if it's more, psychologist couch or church pew.
Lily: I think it's both. I think, I mean, have you ever gone
Cole: to confession?
No. a Protestant baby. Yeah. Have you gone to confession?
Lily: Oh yeah, I was raised Catholic. Well, I went to a Catholic school. Anyway. And,
Cole: okay. So you had to go to confession. how did this, how does this convert to
Lily: confession? I mean, look, it was sort of a kindly priest, especially when I was younger, was Irish. He was called Father Nesta. and he just sort of sat there and let you do the talking and gave you the occasional prompt.
it does sort of feel the way that therapy feels, in a way. But with the promise of something concrete at the end, you know. Two Hail Marys and, whatever else. Right. Then you're [00:42:00] absolved. So I think, yeah, for me this is like, confessing her sins and receiving,
Cole: Absolution? Yeah. Yeah, and so for me this is, when the rock band's playing at the front of the church and, yeah, , different religious experiences. Yeah, yeah. Any incense? No incense, just, cool rock music and, you know, the electric guitar's going and, Gotta make it funky for the kids.
Yeah. Gotta stay hip. We've all seen Sister Act. the pastor's saying, I mean, famously Catholic, but sure, all right. yeah, the pastor is saying, God accepts you and your brokenness and that's okay, which I guess the Kai is saying it's okay for you to be broken from the war, acknowledge that and then the healing can start.
Yeah, you're right. So very Christian. But also very me, I was just thinking someone who's traumatized from what they had to do to survive. Yeah.
Lily: I tell ya, definitely getting Therapist, , but she's wearing a
Cole: wimple, so.
The other interesting thing is, this episode there's this whole theme of the senselessness of [00:43:00] war. But, Kira's cause was just. Like, Star Trek deny that there are some causes worth fighting for. Yeah. And so, I don't know if it's, uh, maybe it's not a contradiction, maybe it just shows layers.
Like, sometimes you do. Need to fight, but even if your cause was worthy, you need to heal from it .
Lily: I mean, you still kill people, even if it was for
Cole: a worthy cause. Yep,
Lily: and I think later in the series, they go into Some more of the particulars of the guerrilla warfare, and I think they touch on, how sometimes things were taken too far, or, it crossed some kind of moral boundary that,
Cole: Yeah, she definitely has her demons from role, even, compromised his morals in the Dominion War, and Anyways, yeah. War is bad, people. War is hell. is
Lily: it good for? Absolutely nothing. Say it again.
Cole: people killing, people
Lily: dying. Wait, you're supposed to finish my song!
alright black eyed peas. What about your humps?
Cole: Sheets! Um,
I think one can appreciate another's humps and be anti war.
[00:44:00] Yeah,
Lily: humps are great.
We can all agree. We can all agree, humps are great, and this is what brings us together in the human experience. Thank you, Black Eyed Peas.
Cole: are you going to do with all that ass? All that ass inside them jeans? Inside them jeans, yeah.
Lily: And, uh, make you scream. All right, and moving on. Back on the runabout. apparently the big old Magneto Nonsenso has done its job.
Ha,
Cole: ha, ha, ha, ha,
Lily: Dax and O'Brien pick up a trace and they're on the hunt. and on the moon, the peace talks have begun. There are lots of lovely ambient fires. It's very romantic.
Cole: I thought there was sort of these weird party centerpieces, these pillars of flame.
Lily: It had a little bit of, survivor
Cole: vibes. , It's time for the Tribal council. Tribal Council.
Lily: Yeah. Yeah. .
Cole: So fire and hell. Yeah, right. Oh yeah. tell me more. Okay, so in the Bible, Dante, the original language is the Bible it's written in, two words for hell were used.
One is Hades just, you know, got that from Greek underworld and then the other isna Oh, [00:45:00] so. The Valley of Gehenna was outside Jerusalem, and it was actually a trash dump, and it was where you went to burn your trash, and then later it was used to burn, bodies. So it became a sort of crematorium slash just dumping ground when there were, outbreaks of plague and things.
Sure, yeah. So. Bring out your dead. So it became this phrase like, well, you don't want to end up in the fires of Gehenna. And so actually it's unclear half the time when you read in the Bible, well, your body will end up in the fires of Gehenna. It could just be translated as you're just going to end up in the crematorium.
And that is maybe where this whole thing about fire and brimstone and hell came from. Right. So it's
Lily: just like a translation era. Yeah. Isn't
Cole: that fascinating?
Lily: And I, yeah, and it's always made more sense to me that hell would be freezing cold because I hate the cold.
Cole: There are a number of religious traditions where hell is cold. I think, Hades was meant to be quite cold. Uh, Sheol, which is the Jewish underworld. [00:46:00] Mmm.
Lily: that will be my hell. Can't grab my. can't eat my food, can't drink my drinks, and I'm chilly.
Cole: Your howl is just looking at wine, and it's out of reach, and you're freezing. Yeah. I feel you.
Lily: I mean, I definitely don't want to push that rock up that hill.
Cole: No. That sounds pretty rough too.
Lily: It's like, um, what's that stupid thing that stupid men do?
Cole: Does it narrow it down?
Lily: Where they like throw rocks and ropes and stuff.
Cole: Repelling?
Lily: No, no, no, it's like a whole, it's like a cult of, exercise. CrossFit. CrossFit. An eternity of CrossFit.
Cole: Sisyphus is in an eternity of CrossFit. I hope he's at least ripped after all that rock pushing.
Lily: Like, I changed my mind. An eternity of CrossFit is my hell.
so we're in the Pace Talks. Sisko is discussing the plans to take the inhabitants of the moon to safety. With Bashir. love this scene. Yeah, and Bashir tries to make a joke and he says, Isn't that like assisting a jailbreak? And he's like, Come on dad, like, let's Let's throw the ball around and have a laugh.
[00:47:00] And Sisko's so mad, he says, I don't need you to interpret the prime directive for me, Doctor.
Cole: He does not enjoy having his integrity being challenged by this,
Lily: twerp. And you know what? In season one, he hates Julian. Yeah. Like, he hates this guy.
Cole: Sisko also knows that Bashir is right. This is kind of a violation of the prime directive.
And he just got called out by yeah. This insufferable little Starfleet graduate.
Sisko does this amazing mental gymnastics. He's like, well, these people were abandoned by their world, and so the Prime Directive isn't relevant, because now these people are, quote, separate and unique.
good at legal arguments. He
Lily: is, and, I mean, this is the point of Star Trek, isn't it? To find the loopholes in the Prime Directive. Otherwise, what show even is this? It's just you ignoring a whole bunch
Cole: of aliens. We're all suffering horrible fates.
Lily: Zlanko, the leader of the Null. Polish drink and leader of the Null ness.
He
Cole: I also , in my notes, I called him Mad Max Martin Short.
Lily: [00:48:00] Ooh, I love that!
Cole: I love Martin Short. Uh huh, I know you do.
Lily: yeah, so he's interrogating Sisko about what his deal is and what the heck the Federation is, which leads to a description of what the Federation is.
And I did some reading about this. And this description, is It's, I guess, one of the first times they describe what the Federation actually does. Right.
Cole: Isn't it crazy? two whole series, the original series, Next Generation, and then This is the first time we get a full ish definition of what the Federation even is.
Yeah, did you write it down? Yeah, um, Sisko says it's made up of over a hundred planets who have allied themselves for mutual scientific, cultural, and defensive benefits. The mission that my people and I are on is to explore the galaxy. they do another definition in Season 1 of Prodigy.
Because I actually just watched that. I wrote that one down. Hologram Janway says, The Federation is an interstellar union with shared principles of rights. universal liberty, and equality. and Starfleet is for deep [00:49:00] space exploration on a mission to maintain peace and freedom.
Lofty. Yeah. Janeway.
Lily: Wow. Alright, Janeway.
Cole: Believe it when I see it. Apparently some of the executive producers were trying really hard to avoid calling the Federation a military alliance. Yeah, sure. I get it. . But it definitely, definitely is. Even on the original series. I mean, Starfleet is protecting Federation space from
Lily: They're protecting their interests, mean, their dress is military, it's a military
Cole: command, I mean, has it ever made perfect sense that Starfleet is simultaneously scientific exploration and military?
no, but, just go with it But
Lily: like, if you want to just go out into the random reaches of space and look at science y things, you torpedoes Exactly And that is proven time and again Indeed You do need those torpedoes Yeah, it's
Cole: just, uh, it's just planning ahead
Lily: it's like Boy Scouts, be prepared.
Yeah, so we get this description of the Federation,
Cole: Uh, and then Zlanko is not impressed. Zlanko
Lily: and Sheila start antagonizing each [00:50:00] other and getting mad about it.
Zlanko is distrustful and thinks that it's all a trick, and it all escalates very quickly, and the two warring factions start,
Cole: killing each other. I couldn't even follow how it collapsed so quickly, how talks collapsed.
Mad Max Martin Short says, As a gesture of peace, bring out all your Ennis from hiding. And then Sheila says, Do you think I'd allow a single gnoll to escape this planet alive?
Lily: Right, so, I guess old Sheila wasn't, on the straight and narrow.
He was planning to stab this guy in the back.
Cole: Martin Short calls out, Sheila for, calls Shaz for bluffing, basically. and then the cardboard knives come out. Ooh, man,
Lily: do they come out. Watch out!
Cole: Okay, so I read that, uh, they interviewed the lead stunt coordinator, who was one of the fighters, and he was really happy to say that the director just let him direct these scenes.
That makes sense. he says, it was really great, the director let me run with it, and during all these scenes, the director was just sitting there reading a magazine. [00:51:00] Oh shit! Oh shit! Oh It's like, well, yeah, it kind of looks like it. Oh my god. Don't admit that, man. I know!
But this fighting, it really is, a high school Macbeth stage fighting. Ohhh. I guess they didn't want any blood, but there's a lot of cardboard.
Lily: They definitely don't want to break the cardboard as well. Yeah. Exactly. So that. That's not structurally sound. Poor,
Cole: bored, extra woman dies again. Sisko's going for it though.
Lily: I believe it. He can hold his own.
Cole: Look, if he brings it, whatever, like, if he has to play hopscotch, if he has to kill some extras, he brings it. Sheila goes down. Martin Short goes down, Star Wars Tie Fighter goes down,
Lily: tries to throw an axe at Sisko, and Bashir is like, no that's my daddy, he heroically intercepts, and for real guys, I'm not kidding, it is quite heroic, he does
Cole: it. And now he's like, now that I've saved dad's life, he'll finally respect me.
Good luck with that.
Lily: And then Bashir says to Sisko, We cannot [00:52:00] afford to die here, not even once. Which
Then there's an O'Brien Dax scene with pure Technobabble.
Cole: They find the moon, Dax is getting increasingly cranky with O'Brien. As am I.
Lily: Yeah. Back on the Moon, Julian is explaining to Sisko that people who die on the moon are reanimated by these microbes, that don't survive off the moon, essentially, so if these people leave, they will die.
Cole: Like the nanites only function on this moon. You can only exist in Hell yeah. You can't leave. Hell yeah. It's
Lily: like a hotel
Cole: California. Oof. Or, um, Orpheus. In
Mm-Hmm. . Do you remember that one? Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . re to see dies on their wedding day. Yeah. Goes to Hades. Orpheus goes into. Hades, much like Sisko and company are in hell as living people and Orpheus is like please let me bring out my wife and Hades, the guy, is moved by how much they want it.
So it's like you can leave Eurydice will follow you out. As long as you don't turn around and look at her. And they're like feet away from getting out. And he turns around just to make sure she's actually [00:53:00] there. And then she disappears and is lost forever. So much like Bashir is trying to rescue the Kai and take her out with them, but once you go to Hades, you cannot
Lily: come out.
You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave, is
Cole: what I would say. Great, we did it. Both Hotel Californias and
Lily: That was a beautifully succinct, synopsis. Great. You really did it.
Cole: all the soldiers coming back to life again in a really unthrilling zombie Once again.
reanimation sequence. Yeah.
Lily: so they're back in the Cozy Cave? And Kyra Parker lets the crew know that, she'll be staying. As it's what the prophecies have been telling her all along. And
Cole: Kyra, like, every Bajoran is like,
Lily: huh? Yeah. But Opaka knew that when she went through the wormhole, that she wouldn't be returning. and that all she was doing was answering the call of the prophets by staying.
and that she is here to help heal these people. And Kira has just begun to heal herself. So she should
Cole: understand. Although, Bajor [00:54:00] needs healing. yeah Opaka, do you want to heal people after a war? Go back to your planet and help the entire planet heal. I'll
Lily: leave them with Nurse Ratchet, Space Karen, and they'll be fine.
Cole: Instead I'm gonna help these, I don't know, everyone down here is also within a 12 kilometer radius. We're talking about maybe a few hundred people max. It's claustrophobic, yeah. Yeah, look, they had to kill her off, bring on an Earth Ratchet for more tension. Also Jesus, gotta save those souls down in hell.
That's the
Lily: purpose, that's the purpose of their life. And you know what?
Cole: That's okay. Opaka gets a slightly on the nose line, I don't love it. she
Cole: says, These people, they don't know how to do anything else but die. They've forgotten how to live. Ooh. Ooh,
Lily: snaps. Look, it's all convenient, isn't it? Because she's dead, she can't actually leave, so what's the point?
Yeah, you're stuck there anyway. It's like, great, you made that decision, but you do have to stay.
Cole: Maybe there's an argument to make that, uh, the role of Kai becomes much more political, after the Cardassian occupation, and maybe she doesn't have interest in that, like, she [00:55:00] represented the symbol of hope during the occupation. And she has very little interest in politics, so she's like, I want to go somewhere else and be a symbol of hope.
She'd be a great politician, though. I know!
Lily: She has presence. She has charisma. She's like, which modern day She would do that thing where she goes up to the podium and then just waits for everyone to stop talking before she starts talking.
Cole: Just like Hitler. oh gosh. Sorry.
Jacinda Ardern during COVID she'd wear nice cozy sweaters and she'd do these Zoom chats to all of New Zealand and she'd just say, Hey everyone, it's going to be okay. We're going to get through this together. And she just, embraced the whole world in this cozy hug.
Yeah. Like, we need more Kai Opaka Jacindas in this world. Yeah, we do. And now she's gone and retired to some hell moon. like Jacinda Ardern. Yeah. No, I don't know what she's doing. No, no, raising a But she did retire. Raising
Lily: a kid. Yeah. Uh. Back on the moon Bashir expounds on his responsibilities as a doctor.
He thinks that he may be able to [00:56:00] reprogram the microbes So that when the people on this moon die, they will die for real so that you know, it's not euthanasia, but it's Stopping
Cole: this. He can end suffering by
Lily: letting them die. This consistent loop, exactly,
Cole: Putting them out of their pain.
. Sheila Shaza is all for it. but as a method for defeating the Noel Ennis Boo.
Lily: You've missed the point of this episode. Sheila. Sheila, you missed the whole bloody point, like were you not listening to us this whole time? Yeah. Uh, magnet team managed to beam Sisko, Kira and Behe off the moon. and the battle. Recommences. Before they go, Sisko promises to find a way to help Kai Opaka.
but she says that her work is here on this whole planet now. although their pa may cross
Cole: again. Your pa and mine will cross
Lily: again. And then she gives like the best face she's given in this whole episode. And that's saying something because she's given so much good face.
Cole: She looks a little, um, a little afraid of this new life she's given herself.
Do you think so? I disagree. I think it's kind of hitting her what she's just done. No, I disagree.
Lily: What's her face saying? I [00:57:00] she's facing the reality, but I don't think it's fear.
Cole: Yeah? Ready to take on this new quest? Yeah.
Lily: mean, what's the worst that can happen? She dies.
Cole: Again and again and again.
they packed a lot in the very final few minutes. I sort of thought the twist of the end was nice. Like you think Sheila's finally gotten it and he wants the salvation, but oh, still all he wants is to see the annihilation of his enemy. But
Lily: you know, spend a week at Spa Opaka and you'll come out feeling a bit more zen, feeling like.
Yeah, I feel good. Be in her presence for a moment, you
Cole: know? I wish we had just briefly revisited this in the series and seen Opaka's progress. Yeah, does it happen at all? actually quite strange because even, I think of Opaka as having been killed off, but she's not. She's hanging out on this moon.
They can go visit her. Anyone can go visit her. But she's treated like she's dead for the rest of the show.
Lily: wait, can they visit her? what about
Cole: the satellites? You have to get around the satellites or whatever, but Dax and O'Brien did it. Bring your magnet. Right, bring your [00:58:00] magnetomer.
Yeah,
Lily: Like, bring
Cole: her some care packages sometimes. Just beam down some Jumjah sticks. Yeah, anything. What's that Bajoran dessert that sounds like baklava? Oh, hasparat. Bring us some Jumjah and some hasparat.
Lily: Oh. Yeah, a fresh Wimple. She's
Cole: only got one.
Bring her a new Wimple, because that is not going to be Fuchsia one week from now. Oh, I going to be stained from all that blood, from all the times. It's going to be so mean, Opaka's going to get stabbed like 1, 700 times. Sure. Do you think that's what happens, though? I No, I think that she
Lily: Fog of war.
Quickly, I don't want to say starts a cult, but she quickly engages at least a few of those really bored extras because she's selling something that's not being solved on this planet. Yeah. That is
Cole: exactly how you would do it. You would start a cult of peace. Hope. Yep. And then the cult of peace would get killed a lot,
Lily: but you know, she, like Jesus on the cross, takes it
think that's her whole vibe, you know.
I [00:59:00] do feel bad for her, like she said, she doesn't get out a lot, and then goes out one time, and she should have stayed home, and, uh, that's why You should never have friends, Cole.
Cole: So Lily is, in fact, not into friends. Yeah, not sold on that. Not sold on friends just yet. Sisko and company escape hell. Do you know how Vergil and Dante get out of hell in Dante's Inferno?
No, tell me. So, they get to the center of hell, they cross through all the rings, and Satan is at the center, and he's this gigantic, beastly, furry creature. trapped in, in ice there. Yeah, yeah, I've seen the Lil Nas video. Yeah. So, they have to crawl down Satan's back, and then they escape hell by crawling up his butt.
No. They literally crawl up his asshole. No. To get to purgatory.
Lily: No, I don't remember that. Yeah. That's not real. Do
Cole: you hear some more poetry? Far out, Lil
Lily: Nas X, he really [01:00:00] got
Cole: it, didn't he? he checked his sources. He really did. Yeah, yeah,
Lily: hit
Cole: So, hell is also in the center of the earth, and so they're going deeper and deeper into the center of the earth.
And turns out Dante had an understanding of, the spherical earth. Oh, cool, yeah. And so literally the center of the earth is Satan's asshole. And once you cross through Satan's asshole, gravity shifts and you start climbing up through purgatory.
Soon as he reached the point where at the thigh, this is Satan's thigh, where at the thigh upon the swelling of the haunches turns my leader there with pain and struggling hard turned round his head where his feet stood before Ungrappled at the fell, as one who mounts, That into hell methought we'd turned again.
I raised mine eyes, believing that I Lucifer should see, Where he was lately left, but I saw him now with legs held upward. And then this is my favorite bit. Which, I think the [01:01:00] translation is, if you're not picking up what I'm putting down, don't worry about it.
Like, if you don't get what I'm saying, it's fine. Never mind. .
Lily: Yeah, you get it or you don't. Yeah,
Cole: exactly.
It's
Lily: kind of smug too. It's like you're only smart if you know about butt stuff.
Lily: Oh my god.
Cole: You know, the Divine Comedy is so saucy, he fills hell with all of his enemies. Mmm! Cause he's going through all the rings and he's, like,, naming all these contemporaries of his who he didn't like.
Great. Like, he gets to the ring where, the Sodomites are. And he's like, oh, that was my teacher from elementary school. Who knew? Whoa.
Lily: I mean, way to deal with your trauma. But yes, also, he is like a bit of a gossip
Cole: jade. He's massive.
Lily: God, I need to re read this.
Cole: It's just pure gossip. He's spilling the tea all across the rings of hell. Man.
Lily: I love that. glad we got to talk about butt stuff again.
Cole: God, you and I are going to hell.
Lily: I've never [01:02:00] argued with that. The hot version. Hell, the hot version.
Cole: As in Lil Nas X and
Lily: the flames. And the flames. Like, Sure. Yeah. I'm not in for that
Cole: cold shit.
Lily: Sure.
Cole: dumpster. The inferno. The literal dumpster fire.
Lily: I, I mean.
Cole: Where I belong. See you in the valley of Gehenna dumpster fire. Me in the burning trash. That's where I truly belong. Alright. Sure. Sure. I say sure to that episode.
I say sure. the idea that war is senseless and there's a better way had been explored probably better in multiple original series episodes. but I I like how spiritual and mystical they got. I wish they did more of that, frankly, on DS9 and Star Trek.
Lily: As we've covered, Lost Opportunities with Kaio Paka. Yeah! She would have been bringing that. It's like very witchy, you know? She's like a bit Stevie
Cole: Nicks, you know?
Lily: She's sort of got that vibe. That's never [01:03:00] recreated with Bajoran religion. No. Is it?
Well, Bara'il. No, there's some hot Vedics, but they're not bringing the same
Cole: energy.
Lily: And I kind of want that. she's bringing like the magic of the religion. A hundred percent.
Cole: Do we shift to a Fashion watch,
Lily: fashion watch, prop watch, and set watch. I don't know. I
Cole: didn't have a song for that.
You're gonna say the, uh, little jail made out of sticks.
Yeah.
Lily: Yeah. The River Styx in jail format. You're such a dog. Brilliant.
Cole: I love it. . . Um, the Kai Fuchsia. Wimple. It's two thumbs up. Fashion for me.
Lily: Fashion. Yeah. I mean, she's the only thing worth looking at in those
Cole: episodes. Yep.
Propwatch, those cardboard blades.
Lily: No, no, no. It's about finding the best thing, not
Cole: the worst thing. Her necklace? It's the necklace. It's the necklace. It's obviously the necklace. I wasn't sure if that
Lily: was Passion Watch or Propwatch. I didn't shout it out, but I was happy to see Jillian's medical satchel again.
Cole: I did think [01:04:00] of you. I still want it. When he wrestled that out of the hands of Bad Extra Girl. Yeah, don't touch my thing. Don't touch my naked. That's my fucking purse, Yeah. Any final thoughts? Do you know what? Tell
Marker
Cole: me. Maybe I like Shiraz. Good. Yeah. You've come around.
Lily: I definitely like it more than this episode. Yeah. But I've come around slightly to this episode. I feel like it's drab episodes.
Cole: You're right, two pretty blah episodes in a row.
But next week is a lot of fun. What's next week? The Storyteller. Oooooh. Both the A and the B plots are just lots of fun. I remember
Lily: this. It's O'Brien Heavy.
Cole: Yes. There's good robes.
Um, Jake and Nog are chasing some Bajoran babe. O'Brien and Bashir are dealing with wild Bajoran monsters. Look, It's a lot of Bajorans, but it's fun Bajorans.
Lily: What could this show have been if Kaio Paka had lived?
Cole: I think Sisko would have had a mentor. Yeah. I mean, He was so ready to [01:05:00] connect with Akai. oh, yeah, feel the worst for Sisko that he lost this, spiritual teacher.
Their relationship
Lily: is just beautiful.
Cole: Because got healing to do too.
Lily: Yeah, and she was the one who set him on the path to healing his trauma.
Cole: Hasn't she? It's
Lily: kind of her thing. God, how do we find Kai Opake in therapy form? Like, is there something I can fill out where I'm like, my psychologist must resemble Cairo Parker in every way?
Cole: She needs to stare at me until I break and just start sobbing with my jaw agape, yeah, touch my ear and read my soul.
Lily: Maybe we can be our own Kai Opakas.
Cole: That's beautiful.
Lily: I don't know, I feel like I've got more Zlanko vibes. I'll be my own Zlanko.
Cole: Have you heard the sort of self help technique of, like giving a name to your inner critic? the one who's like, Cole, you will never amount to anything, like naming him like Zlanko.
And then I could be like, Zlanko, go back to hell, right? And maybe I can name the part of me who's [01:06:00] like, Cole, you alright. The
Lily: kind, caring part
Cole: of you. That's Kayo Paca. And I'll just fall into her bosom and she can read my pa.
Yeah, let the healing begin. Yeah, Wow, I feel like I've had a bit of a breakthrough.
Lily: who needs therapy when you have Star Trek? Disney, Swan,
Cole: and Star Trek. And Shiraz. Ugh, cheers to that. We Ding! So, in conclusion, Lily and Cole are healed, but
Lily: still going to hell.
Cole: Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening, everyone. Bye! Bye!