Don't Hate the Changeling, Hate 'The Game': VORTEX (1.11)

In "Vortex," Odo gets an unwitting lesson in manipulation and seduction from a wily stranger promising him answers about his origins. So today, Lily schools us in every pickup tactic the episode pulls straight out of the pickup artist playbook. Meanwhile, Cole points out all the western genre motifs drawn from the classic film that inspired "Vortex," 1953's The Naked Spur.

🍷 Wine pairing: Domaine Ott Clos Mireille Rosé
❤️ Talk to us on Instagram: @deepspacewine_podcast

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 10:47 Wine pairing
• 15:08 Episode recap
• 1:05:05 Final thoughts (and Fashion Watch!)

Transcript

1-11 Vortex

Cole: [00:00:00] Rene Auberjonois says, A smile is sort of a gift that Odo gives only on very special occasions. 

Lily: Oh, no, it's creepy and we hate it. I'd like to return the gift. 

Cole: Hey everyone, I'm Cole Paulson. And I'm Lily Rossen. And welcome back to Deep Space Wine, a podcast that attempts to recap and decode every episode of Deep Space Nine, the forgotten stepchild of the Star Trek universe. Each episode, we'll share a bottle of wine, wind down, and then wind ourselves up again with our strong opinions about DS9.

Because in our social experience, there is nothing people love more than when someone talks at length about Star Trek or wine. 

Lily: Or, uh, fancy little necklaces used to 

Cole: impress people. it already makes me sad that maybe all the fashionista has to comment on [00:01:00] is one lone necklace 

Lily: in this episode.

Um, it's really integral to my, understanding of this episode, so stay 

Cole: tuned folks. And how did you find the episode? 

Lily: Uh. Let's be honest, it's a stinker. Savage. yeah, I struggled with this one and I, I felt like it had some things going for it. the pacing was slow The thematic stuff, it just felt like you were trudging through cement.

I don't know. You tell me what 

Cole: you think. Well, I wrote Vortex, a story of skullduggery, thieves, murder, revenge, vigilante justice, deceit, and yet at the core for everyone, a longing to connect and to belong. 

Lily: Wow. You're really selling it. 

Cole: You loved it. No. I'm just, I'm just trying my best here. I was trying to figure out what didn't really add up for me.

I think it just suffers from Star Trek mediocrity. Yeah. And by that I mean, you know, costumes that are actually pajamas, lots of forehead makeup, so so acting. [00:02:00] But 

Lily: these are things that we love in other episodes. So, what's the problem? 

Cole: I just think, when characters are walking around in PJs, and the lesson is sort of Don't prejudge people it 

 

Cole: feels 

Lily: like you're you're just describing Star Trek I don't know.

I feel like 

Cole: which is why I actually don't think this is a bad episode I just think it's a very average Star Trek episode. Yeah, okay I'm with you there. Give me a bad episode and I will delight in how bad it is. Sure 

Lily: I hear you, I hear you. But liked your synopsis. I think there are some things going on that are worth discussing. Yeah, I do too. Um, I just think maybe at the end of the day it wasn't that entertaining. 

Cole: Did you see what it was inspired by? 

Lily: I did read something about it, but you, you, you go, Glenn, go, go.

Cole: Uh, so it was inspired by a Western called The Naked Spur from 1953 starring, Jimmy Stewart and Janet Leigh. And once I started to think about this as a Western, it did start to fall into place. I started to understand what they were going for. Sure. I guess The Naked Spur is about, hero transporting a [00:03:00] wanted murderer to answer for his crimes, and along the way they're beset by others who want him for the price on his head. Sure. So, it's sort of this taking a bad guy from point A to point B and the dynamics between them. I like to think of Odo as the lawman, the Wyatt Earp in the Wild West.

and fun fact, they actually, once they had the idea for this episode, they invited one of the original screenwriters of the Naked Spur to write the teleplay. 

Lily: Cool. So one of the writers, or a couple of the writers were like mega fans. 

Cole: Yeah. In fact, one of the writers had interned with this guy, and he invited his old boss back and said, Hey, can you write this episode for us?

And, um, yeah, and he passed away before the episode ended up airing. Uh, his name is Sam Rolfe. Oh, Sam 

Lily: Rolfe. Sorry for shitting all over 

Cole: your legacy. Yeah, it's pretty terrible to talk, uh, talk poorly of the deceased. Sure. 

Lily: look, I'm sure the original film was really good.

Haven't seen it. I like Jimmy Stewart and Janet Leigh. Sure. 

Cole: I mean, it sounds great. I thought it was also just nice to finally get off the station. This is the first time since the [00:04:00] pilot, the action goes off the station. Is that true?

Lily: Let's get on to one of those weird Star Trek stages with, like, rock lifts and in a cave, etc. Yeah, I mean, 

Cole: we did get off, exactly, we got off the station to go to a cave, which really sets the tone for every single planet from here on out. I mean, look, it is 

Lily: Star Trek. I don't know what you want from it, if it's not that.

I 

Cole: want a little more budget, I'll be honest with you. Really? they said this one actually almost broke the bank. All the different alien ships. And the nebula. That's so drab. Shout out to Deep Space Nine for clearly, having to work with a very, very small budget. Yeah. Because they made it work.

It's true, they did. But you, there's something endearing about just how cheap it looks. 

Lily: look, that's why we love it. that's why it's the forgotten stepchild. Like, no one's giving it the brand new costumes and props. 

Cole: I think it's nice we get a little sneak peek at Odo's origins. Yeah! we love vulnerable Odo, there's a lot of 

Lily: vulnerable sentiment in Odo. Yeah, I guess, maybe that leads into some things that I might want to talk about. Oh, go on. So the main things [00:05:00] I got were, the juxtaposition between Odo's need for belonging and then the concept of the twinned self with the Miradorn twins.

Indeed. Odo's search for his people and his identity, is the first time we really get a strong sense of that in this episode. Uh, Starfleet, Diplomacy. 

Cole: So much of that. 

Lily: and it's rough. 

Cole: Sisko is so desperate to be a good diplomat and he just keeps messing it up. 

Lily: He just keeps sending people off to their death.

Oh my Christ! But you know, it's the Prime Directive, so that's what you gotta do. but my real, thesis of this episode is my theory that one of the writers on this show was a follower of the pickup artist seen in LA during the 90s in the early 2000s. Hear me out. So if you don't know about it these guys had a movement and it was a movement of men whose goal was seduction and sexual success and it kind of boils down to a bunch of pseudo psychological tricks that you can use with strangers that act as icebreakers, to create rapport. And this is all in an [00:06:00] effort to have sex with someone. so you may know about this from a guy called Ross Jeffries.

I don't know if you've heard of him, but he's, who Tom Cruise's character in Magnolia is based on. So he's kind of like a Tony Robbins, but for getting laid kind of guy, like he holds conferences and things like that. 

Cole: I forgot that that was based on a real person. Yeah. Okay. 

Lily: but maybe more famously is Neil Strauss, and his book, The Game.

Yes. Penetrating the secret society of pickup artists. Penetrating. That's right. He knew what he was doing. All right. So, I'll be real with you. I was aware of this text in the way that most people are, which is as like a cultural artifact. I, have not read it and there was no way I was going to read this steaming turd of 

Cole: a book.

I actually tried reading it just to educate myself, just to be aware of the zeitgeist. Right. And I could only, last about a chapter because I was feeling so icky inside. Not in 

Lily: an effort to learn some pickup techniques. 

Cole: Baby, I don't 

Lily: need techniques. Oh yeah, you got that face and that bod. But so yeah, I did not read it, but I listened.

to the [00:07:00] episode of If Books Could Kill. Yes. Do you know that podcast? I do know that podcast. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. Michael Hobbs is like my idol and I will listen to any podcast that he cares to make. Yeah. but yeah, so that's where I've got my information from about this book. He's very trustworthy. 

Basically, the book is an autobiographical account of the reporter Neil Strauss infiltrating this bizarre society of pickup artists in LA in the early 2000s. and he gets pretty comfortable in the scene. he does have like a modicum of self awareness about how manipulative, weird, and sad the whole thing is.

but he's also pretty pleased with the amount of sex with women under the age of 20 he manages to have. Everything is couched in cult like terms of, sports and military. Kinds of terms. You've got to speak the people's language. Yeah, so there are a bunch of so called tactics, or techniques, that I will argue are being deployed by one of the characters.

Uh, not in aid of having sex, but in getting what he wants. cause this is Star Trek, so no one No one has sex. so let me introduce some of these terms just so everyone's aware of them when I start using them. Should I get my notebook [00:08:00] out? Yeah. Get this jargon ready. so have you heard of the term negging?

Cole: Oh, I do know about negging. Yes. 

Lily: we can delve into that a bit more, as the episode progresses. There 

Cole: is negging in this episode. You're so right. Absolute 

Lily: negging. there's, creating false time constraints. Uh huh. so like putting a time limit on something to create a sense of urgency.

Yes. 

Cole: like you need to sleep with me tonight. Exactly. 

Lily: Yeah. Or I will be flying to Brazil in 

Cole: the morning. Yeah. Sometimes I am flying to Brazil. Exactly. I'm not, this is not me. This is not me. 

Lily: Unbeknownst to Cole, he's been using the rules of the game. the use of props. So. Propwatch? Yeah, exactly, but as like a tool to sort of build connection.

Like 

Cole: maybe a certain locket? 

Lily: Like perhaps a little, little necklace. Uh huh. Um, Soulgazing. What is that? So that's just where you look into someone's eyes to create a connection. I mean, a lot of these terms are absolutely garbage. In fact, they're all garbage. 

Cole: And yet apparently they, they work. 

Lily: Um, IOIs, that's [00:09:00] Indicators of Interest.

Cole: O I 

Lily: is an acronym. There's like tons of acronyms in this book that they use for things. Indicators of interest. Indicators of interest. Um, and then also kind of the whole tenet of the thing is creating false senses of connection with the person that you want something from.

Definitely. 

Cole: And that's on full display here. Full 

Lily: display. Um, special mention to peacocking. which is wearing something outrageous, like a top hat, to draw attention to yourself and create a topic of conversation on an iceberg. A tasteful fedora. Exactly. although not utilized. by the person deploying these techniques.

There is 

Cole: no peacocking in that 

Lily: wardrobe. Exactly. Arguably, it's applied by every other character in the DS9 

Cole: universe. I think Quark is the resident peacock. He is, 

Lily: yeah. so yeah, that's what I will be discussing. 

Cole: Sometimes it's Shakespeare, sometimes we're doing a comparative literary analysis the game and it's 

Lily: Elf.

The game. And it's creepy, manipulative tactics. 

Cole: Well, always come to this podcast ready to learn something and I can't wait to learn some [00:10:00] new tips. Oh man, 

Lily: the things that I learned this week. I 

Cole: love that because for me, I did get a little excited about a link. a thematic link to a beloved novel that was adapted for the stage and maybe I'll just let you and the listeners try to guess, you don't guess it before too long, of course I'll Then I'm a dum dum.

No. Don't neg yourself, Lily. That's all I know.

I'm excited. How else will I get me to do things? Um, false timelines? 

Lily: False sense of urgency, yeah. 

Cole: All right, Lily, wrap it up because we need to finish this 

Lily: podcast fast. All right, I'm wrapping this up. All 

Cole: right. False sense of urgency. All right. 

Lily: That was good, wasn't it? All right, let's do it. And then let's talk about the wine.

Oh, yes, please. All right. So my wine choice for tonight was It's directly inspired by Quark's drink that he serves at the beginning of the episode, which is called his special Lengor. 

Cole: Lengor. And it's in a really beautiful bottle. It looks sort of like [00:11:00] a bunch of grapes. 

Lily: Bunch of grapes. I said that it looked like the perfume bottle I would have wanted as a pre teen.

It does. 

Cole: Yeah, it's a beautiful bottle. 

Lily: Like if Britney Spears had released that as a pre teen, lengor by Britney. Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, that's what influenced my wine decision and I pretty much just tried to color match. So I've gone with a very pale pink rosé.

Cole: It is, gorgeous. It is gorgeous. It's a gorgeous bottle, the exact same shade, and it looks delicious. 

Lily: It is. and our first rose, ah, yes. And it's good. it's hot wherever we are, whenever we are, we about wherever we are. . so this is a 2022 domain ot, so this is from the ko, as all great. Okay. Southern France. Yeah, the south of France. Um, 

Cole: Isn't it fun how you talk about southern Italy, but you talk about the south of France? Yeah. I feel like if it's, if it's like where poor people are, it's southern Italy.

But if it's where [00:12:00] fancy people are, it's the south of France. 

Lily: Well, I think the south gets a bad rap in Italy, whereas, the south in France is just kind of fancy. Exactly. Or it used to be. 

Cole: So you got to say it fancy. Exactly. All right. The Côte de Provence. 

Lily: Côte de Provence. So this is, 65 percent Grenache, 22 percent Cinsault and 13 percent Syrah. 

And yes, you mentioned the bottles so basically the shape of the bottle was a marketing technique in the 1930s. so you'll see this with, Rosé from Provence. They've often got quite eccentric, beautiful bottle shapes that you just don't see with other styles of wine.

So Domaine Hotte, we're trying to create something distinctive for the restaurant market and something that would be easily recognizable, which you do now. If you ever see a bottle this shape, it'll be, Domaine Hotte. Wow. there's no other wine bottles that look like this. so it's got long, sloping shoulders, a bulging middle, and a narrow base.

Kinda like my body. No, I'm kidding. 

 The design is actually based on amphora. Do you know what that is? No. I didn't either. But it's a [00:13:00] kind of receptacle or vase that was typically used for transport on board ships.

So they could like be tied together and didn't break. And you might recognize it from ancient Greek paintings of vases. Sort of a nod to, the ancient Greek rosé, which is, where it comes from. These ancient Greek vines and also the style of winemaking of rosé, which is, a very old style of winemaking.

Which I won't get into, but I really, had fun learning about it. 

Cole: it looks stunning. I'd love to try some. I want it in my mouth. Just quickly. Oh, excuse me. I'm patient. 

Lily: From the producers. The bouquet reveals fresh fruit punctuated with lemony notes. On the palate, its freshness develops through citrus aromas around a resolutely mineral core, ending with a subtly persistent finish.

Notes of nectarine, citrus, and wild 

Cole: strawberry. Not only was that beautifully written, But it all sounds like something wine could taste like. I have no questions, Your Honor. Oh, fabulous.[00:14:00] 

Merci. 

Cheers. Honestly. I was thirsty.

Oh, that's so nice. So 

Lily: isn't it? 

Cole: I just feel emboldened to, I don't know, buy a very expensive Fabergé egg. Right? 

Lily: and I'm not going to be asking questions about where it's from. Thank goodness, 

Cole: because 

Lily: Does it make you feel like you're in Provence on a hot day? 

Cole: Well, I've never been to Provence on a hot day, but But imagine!

Lily: Imagine yourself 

Cole: there. yeah, and maybe I invite you on a tandem bike ride. Oh, lovely. 

Lily: Yeah, I like that it's dry, but there's fruit and there's a richness to it. But then you also get that, mineral sort of saline thing at the end.

Oh, yeah, it's good. It's that special 

Cole: langur.

Isn't that a great name for liquor, by the way? Langur? I loved it. I loved it. Because doesn't the word mean, is that the noun form of languid? 

Lily: Is it? . Langur. Yeah, I think you're right. 

Cole: It's a great name for a liqueur. 

Lily: it's fabulous. Or actually, uh, 

Cole: should we [00:15:00] do it? We better do this. Yee haw. Let's head into the Wild West. 

Lily: Ooh! The game is afoot. 

Cole: So. Odo strolls up to his usual stool at Quark's bar. The usual Odo, says Quark. Nothing, says Odo. And Quark says, Exactly, the usual. 

Lily: it's very Jimmy Stewart, Janet 

Cole: Leigh. It's the sheriff striding into the saloon. We talked a lot about how Odo is the quintessential gumshoe detective, but he's also the quintessential frontier lawman.

He is, yeah. And we've talked about how the station is this frontier outpost. Odo is keeping an eye on a mysterious new arrival to the station, Croden, sitting at the end of the bar. It seems a Klingon ship had rescued him from a broken down shuttle in the Gamma Quadrant. And Odo thinks he looks fishy.

He looks away whenever I make eye contact. Cause 

Lily: no one would ever be put off by Odo's face when he's staring at 

Cole: them. Right. Also, bro, you're a police officer. Sure. Imagine if there's a police officer just sitting at the bar not drinking anything. And he like, doesn't have a face. he's trying his [00:16:00] best.

He's trying his best. Wow. Sorry. 

 So Odo says that this guy Croden had been pretty tight lipped when Sisko and his entourage greeted him upon arrival to the station.

But Odo hears that he and Quark had been getting friendly. Odo is just, he lives to suspect people.

Yeah. I feel like he needs to get some more hobbies. Yeah. he just always wants to see the worst in people, just convince people are criminals. I 

Lily: mean, it's what makes him a good detective 

Cole: slash security officer. I guess. I just feel like he needs job security. Sure. Yeah. But, then. Two twinned Miradorn march in.

These guys are identical twins, they're these hulking, professional wrestler like people. to me they were giving, like, Donkey Kong. Ooh, 

Lily: yeah! What is the vibe? Can I, can I take it from here? Please do. Alright, so what we've got, folks, is sort of a weird two piece pajama suit. There's a lot of 

Cole: PJs 

Lily: episode.

There's some panels of shiny grey plastic. On the 

Marker

Lily: crotch and the forearms. Oh, and when they turn around, it's [00:17:00] also on their butts, kind of like a nappy or a diaper, 

Cole: as you would say. Yeah, the silver is like what you put on your windshields to keep it cool 

Lily: yeah. And, um, their butt heads. 

Cole: And they have big butt 

Lily: heads. the, forehead is, divided into two cheeks. 

Cole: Yeah, I think they're supposed to look like big bullies.

But they have butts on their forehead. Couple of butt heads. They've got these weird skin flaps on their necks that are sort of tied up. 

Lily: a choker underneath it. Yeah. Nothing says scary like a choker. 

Cole: Michael 

m 

Cole: Westmore, the head makeup designer, said he was really proud of the Miradorn makeup.

Lily: Well, it's good to love yourself, I guess. 

Cole: Moving on quickly. Odo swears he sees these butt faced guys nod at Quark. Quark denies it, but then he hurriedly tells Rom to get the best langur out and follow him up to the holosuites. Well, first he 

Lily: does some, gaslighting. he says, Paranoia must run in your species.

Maybe that's why no one has ever seen another [00:18:00] shapeshifter. They're all hiding. So it's sort of like throwing the blame onto you for, legitimate, concern. 

Cole: Okay. This is a weird, weird thing in this episode, especially people say really unfair things like your people must all be paranoid and in hiding, but then they're right.

Yeah. Spoiler alert. Also, Odo's suspecting everyone of wrongdoing and he's always right. It kind of makes me 

Lily: uncomfortable. The moral is, always believe your bigotry and worse suspicions about people. 

Cole: Which is also a hilarious takeaway from this episode. I, totally sympathize with Quark being really fed up with Odo harassing all of his customers though.

Sure. It's not a vibe. He's a businessman. Having the sheriff sit in the middle of the bar. It's bad 

Lily: for business. 

Cole: He's not wrong. Yeah, so then Quark orders Rom bring a flask of the special lingoire and he snarls at Odo on his way. It's great. 

Lily: There's less and less snarling as the series progresses.

Which is a shame. 

Cole: enjoy it. Then, following his brother's orders, Rom sets four glasses on a tray, turns to [00:19:00] get the beautiful bottle of lingoire, which looks just like our wine tonight, and when he turns around, he doesn't notice that there are now five glasses on the tray.

Mm hmm. Okay, so begins some serious issues with Odo physics and shape shifting this episode. First of all, so the idea is that while Rom had his back to the bar, shifted into a wine glass. that is not like him to shift in front of a huge crowd of people. Yeah. Right. 

Like, 

Lily: maybe his Alex Mack technology can be way more, cloak and dagger. Like, maybe he can be more subtle about it. 

Cole: If that's true, we never see it for the rest of the 

Lily: series. We don't. Weirdly, the budget doesn't allow it. Crazy. 

Cole: And then the other thing is that we hear later in the episode how heavy Odo is.

Yeah. And Rom is carrying all of Odo's mass on a tray with four other wine glasses. Apparently there's a lot of, awkward hand wringing about how to explain Odo physics [00:20:00] behind the scenes. To explain this away, one of the writers, Robert Hewitt Wolfe, says, well maybe he shunts a portion of his mass into subspace or some other dimension we don't know about and even know that he's doing it.

So that's what's happening. He's shunting his mass into subspace for Rom to carry him upstairs. 

Lily: To be fair, we will find out later. He doesn't know the first thing about being a shapeshifter and he sort of has to learn how to do 

it. 

Cole: So truly, going on, the writers and including 

Lily: Odo.

They're definitely feeling out what it is to be a 

Cole: shapeshifter. Yeah, exactly. Also, favorite question people love to ask is what happens to Odo's communicator when he shapeshifts? 

Lily: Oh, interesting. 

Cole: Did I just ruin the whole show for you? I'm sorry. Like I care. He's seriously, 

Lily: not understanding what I like about this show.

You think that 

Cole: ruins it So, brace yourselves, because things are about to get straight up Tarantino up in this holosuite. Rom brings his tray [00:21:00] of five glasses into the holosuite, where Quark is indeed in the midst of some shady dealings with his big twin, Miradorn. Just quickly, 

Lily: sorry to interrupt, if you're meeting in the holosuite Would you think about setting the Holosuite as something other than the Holosuite with its weird fluorescent 

Cole: lights?

Well, it probably uses energy. Quark probably has to pay the energy bills on the Holosuite. But I feel 

Lily: like it's a power move. Like, maybe put on one of those, you know, sex programs to put old buttheads, not at ease. Or, I don't know. It's a Distraction 

Cole: Or Quark makes some pretty, debatable choices in this episode.

so these butthead miradorns have delivered a very pretty pink, gold encrusted egg. It's actually one of the less cheap looking props on the show so far. 

Lily: Fabergé egg you've never 

Cole: stolen. and they demand their payment. Quark seems to be stalling, asking if this egg was stolen. But, just then, the hollow sweet doors whoosh open.

And this chap, Croden, strides in, the mystery man sitting at the bar. He's got his phaser [00:22:00] raised, and he demands the Fabergé egg. But these Butthead girly twins aren't here to play and violence breaks out. the fifth glass shatters to the floor, shatters into dozens of pieces which immediately melt and congeal back into an odo.

And when the dust settles, one of the MIradorn twins is dead, shot by Croden. In 

Lily: a dumb shootout. This is really boring. 

Cole: It's a high stakes western shootout. And everyone in the holosuite is hauled off to security. Oh 

Lily: man. Um. I was also thinking about how excited Quark gets about random bric a brac and somehow knows how to, I don't know, price it, 

mean, who has the time? 

Cole: What does he call them, Abajay Dot? 

Lily: Yes! Oh my gosh! 

Cole: Quark knows some nice French. He sure does. Just another oto physics watch. The glass he's disguised as shatters into multiple pieces and then all the pieces merge back just like a T2 Terminator. so I guess he can split himself apart?

Which you also never see in [00:23:00] any other episodes. 

Lily: Interesting. Like, I think they talk about how he can become gas. Yeah, so I 

Cole: mean, fair. the dude's a superhero. Yeah, that's right. I have physics, . Yes. It's hard hitting physics. 

Lily: I didn't do a science in my, which is 

Cole: uh, which is why we're discussing Intertextuality of Stark Deep Space Nine.

Cole: So, in Odo's office, the surviving Miradorn twin, his name is Achel, is not in a good way. Because, as he explains to Sisko Miradorn aren't just brothers, they're a single self. Two halves of one being. Yeah. He says, I am incomplete now. And 

Lily: I like this concept, and I sort of wish they'd done more with 

Cole: it.

As a sci fi concept, it's not explored. Mm. Which is why, as you said, I think it sort of exists in the metaphorical. space here. Sure. 

 I figure it functions on two levels. It gives him a motivation for the rest of the episode because he vows revenge.

The only thing he's living for now is to, kill the man who killed his twin. And I 

Lily: think at some point he says the other [00:24:00] part of him was the part that moderated him. 

Cole: So now he's a loose cannon. He's just a raging loose cannon. Yeah. And then there's that thematic symbolism. This idea of, is life worth living if you're alone in this world?

It's almost got a operatic level of 

Lily: tragedy to it. It does. Yeah. And they sort of, Beat that dead horse over the course of the 

Cole: episode. The episode, we can say this about it, it knows what its themes are. It does. And it tells 

Lily: us. Many times. Oh my gosh. 

Cole: Man, Odo's fascism is showing. He's got zero empathy for all of this. Basically saying it's the Miradorn's fault because he was illegally peddling stolen goods. Sisko lets him return to his ship though and insists that the law will deal with Croden for this murder. Again with sort of Frontier politics.

Yeah. I mean, what is the law when you're on a frontier outpost? Um, but I think, 

Lily: Sisko makes it clear that Odo is overstepping. 

Cole: Yeah, odo just wants to see justice, and Sisko knows that we're about to get into that tricky jurisdictional, gray area of what justice [00:25:00] even looks like when you're dealing with all sorts of cultures.

Sure. Diplomacy. Yeah, and Sisko's I think what I'm learning in this close watch is that diplomacy is the number one thing on his mind. Picard is an explorer and a humanitarian, and Sisko's a politician. Well, he has to be. That's what 

Lily: he's there for. He doesn't get to leave after his little interaction with alien 

Cole: species.

 He's stuck dealing with the consequences. Meanwhile, Odo doesn't have enough evidence to convict Quark and Rom of wrongdoing, but he does find it very sus. that Croden, had a Ferengi phaser and knew that the meeting would be happening. Rom pipes up, how dare you suggest my brother set up this robbery?

Oh, Rom. Odo's like, hmm, what an interesting theory. Oh, Rom. He's a terrible criminal. And so he and Quark scurry off and Quark's calling him a lobeless 

Lily: idiot. A lobeless idiot. what do you think that? Is that like dickless? What does it mean? 

Cole: Yeah, but brainless. Brainless. I mean, you got the lobes for profit, right?

Lily: Lobes for profit and for, 

Cole: and for sensuality. Umox times. Yeah. [00:26:00] And Rom is not there in that department. or is he? No spoilers. Stay tuned everyone. Armin Shimerman raised a pretty valid concern about this episode. Like how many times does Quark have to be involved in some murderous or murder adjacent plot and then not get punished for it?

It kind of makes Odo look completely ineffectual at his job for Quark's criminal record to just be wiped clean. But I guess 

Lily: do leave enough gray area for what Quark's participation was in. The actual crime that occurred. 

Cole: Every time, but Odo is not an idiot. I mean, I think Quark would have spent a lot of time in jail by the end of this series if Odo was doing his job.

Lily: Yeah. Or, Quark manages to successfully manipulate Odo. 

Cole: those two. The bromance of the century. It really is. Of the 24th century. It really is. Well then, Sisko and Odo, go and pay. Croden a visit in his holding cell where he's staring glumly at seemingly his only possession, this necklace he's wearing.

apparently Odo hasn't been feeding this guy? Croden just wants food and Odo gives him grief for having an [00:27:00] appetite after killing someone. Dude, prison this is not. 

Lily: Geneva Convention. What? 

Cole: Right? Sisko explains there will be a trial and Croden can either be assigned an advocate or he can request one from his home world. hints that his home world Rakkar has a pretty bleak criminal justice system. He says, all crimes are serious there, but there are no trials.

And then he refers to Odo as a changeling. The first time we've ever heard this word. And that immediately raises Odo's attention, and Croden spots it, and he says, Well, feed me, and maybe I'll tell you where I met someone just like you. Playing hard to get for some dinner in prison. 

Lily: Sure, trying to get his needs met by Perhaps dangling something in front of him, you know.

Cole: chapter of the game are we working with? Uh, 

Lily: I don't know, but are you picking up on any IOIs? Indications of interest from Odo? 

Cole: Well, he's definitely intrigued by Croden's story. He's intrigued. Yeah. , [00:28:00] he's, he's taking the bait, yeah, taking the bait, and now Odo wants to know everything about this guy.

Lily: Yeah, he's given him some crumbs, and he's eaten them up. 

Cole: Yeah, who's the expert who was in Magnolia? Croden, Croden, you Tom Cruise little sneak. It's 

Lily: true. It definitely piques Odo's interest, but it's sort of the thing that's perhaps closest to Odo's heart and somehow Croydon's picked up on that.

Cole: Totally. 

 So, I guess trap that's being laid is This sense of creating a connection through something that he's picked up on, 

Cole: he's like once. Yeah, I know about your people and your family.

Yeah, don't you want to know more? Yeah, stick with me. Yeah, exactly By the way, feel like huge thumbs down for me. It's just Croden's appearance. It's trash His forehead makeup, it's giving me sort of small tree primate, like a lemur. 

Lily: but it's also like really grey, like dead tones.

Cole: Yeah, I mean he looks aggressively boring. He's got this sort of clown wig. Oh, the hair is terrible. , and all there is to say about the fashion is just, you could wear it to bed. 

Lily: But you know that your [00:29:00] duvet will be a hell of a lot more interesting than what you're wearing.

Cole: Burn! at least he's got a conversation starter necklace. 

Lily: exactly. I guess that's the thing. Mm hmm. But yeah, you do kind of wish that this guy had a bit more flair. Oh, yeah. Because he's giving off interesting guy, you know? He's giving off, I'm a confident, interesting guy with mysterious things happening that He should be 

Cole: a lot more captivating.

Yeah. Yeah. 

Lily: Yeah. He could do with some peacocking. 

Cole: I'll say that. He needs that. . So, in Sisko's office, the senior staff are fretting about whether they ought to reach out to Croden's home planet before the trial. They all seem keen for him to be anyone else's problem.

reckons it's a very awkward way to make first contact. Like, hey, we're putting someone on trial for murder. 

Lily: Dax has a great line. She says, Homicide is a means to open relations, not exactly how they teach it at the academy.

 Kira's also channeling some awkward fascism. She's like, no way, his planet's gonna be grateful that he's locked up. He's clearly a dangerous career criminal, and they'll be glad he's being dealt with. 

Lily: Like, [00:30:00] she has no understanding of the nuance of, I don't know, being a political freedom fighter, for 

Cole: example?

Or someone who's desperately trying to make ends meet. Pushed to do less than ethical things. She is just bloodthirsty. it's a little out of character, or she's blinkers on. but they decide they have to try to speak to Rakkar, his home planet, and so Sisko and Dax head off into the Gamma Quadrant track down this planet.

Lily: One of my favorite Best Friends 

Cole: clubs. yeah, this mission is way under Sisko's pay grade, but he probably just wants to hang out with his bestie. And do some first contacting because she loves that stuff. And I think they wanted 

Lily: to give Sisko something else to do in this episode.

but it's not much. 

Cole: Yeah. So, back down in Quark's, Odo is playing detective. Lurking around, questioning patrons. He's pieced together that Odo and Croden have been pretty chummy. It's the first time we get Morin's name, fun fact. have we mentioned this? Morn is an anagram of Norm on Cheers. Yeah. and the beginning of the long running gag that Morn talks too much.

Lily: Talks too much and is like a huge gossip. Yeah, 

Cole: exactly. Morn [00:31:00] should keep his big mouth shut. but we never hear him speak. So good. Yeah, it's a good gag. OTOs heard Cork was trying to arrange crow in a shuttle and guesses that was probably his payment for staging this robbery in the hollow suite. there's some good dialogue with these two.

Quark says you attribute odious motives to my every charitable act. OTO says, that's because your favorite charity as your own pocket. Mm. 

Lily: Is this like a really charged, exchange between them. They're sort of in the shadows. They're really close to each other. 

Cole: I was getting very film noir, just uplighting in the dark. 

Lily: Yeah. And sort of the tone and the emotion behind what they're saying to each other. 

Cole: Well, you can see that Odo's really personally invested in this. He's desperate. He has been hooked. The I. O. I. is, oof, the interest is off the charts. Sure is. Odo wants to know everything about this guy.

Ooh, close talking. 

Lily: Oof. Have we talked about how, Quark seems to have a soft 

Cole: side? tell 

Lily: me. Well, that Quark says about Croon, that he was so out of place alone, and I felt sorry for him. But do we believe that? No. I mean, we don't believe it. No, but [00:32:00] also 

Cole: it's there. But that's not why Cork was, buttering this guy up?

Was it ? 

 Look, cork's not perfect for Engie. That's why you and I. Love him. Is it? Yes. I mean the guy's got layers. 

Lily: He absolutely has layers. If he were just straight up Ferengi, there'd be no point to this character.

Cole: Yeah. of the least dynamic characters. I mean does he go on any sort of character journey on the show? I think he does. 

Lily: Okay. I'm gonna argue. Over the course of this podcast that he does. Great. I'm 

Cole: you and I are doing this together.

Cole: But then Odo's called away because Miradorn guerrilla dude and his crew are blockading the entrance to his office, demanding to get their hands on Croden. Oh And so Odo goes and talks to them, and this poor de twinned Miradorn is like, He killed the part of me that made existence bearable!

I can't stop until I kill him! And Odo manages to talk him down, and they back off. and then Odo goes and pays a visit to his, new favorite fascinating prisoner, Krodan. which It's nice to see he's now been fed. His little prison plate. [00:33:00] Yeah. and then they, have a series of these back and forth dialogues in prison. it gave me some echoes of Silence of the Lambs. Ah, interesting. Right, a little Clarice and Hannibal having the tete a tete. Okay. Croden. Also, he's Garak, isn't he? All this dissembling and he's oozing charm and dancing around the truth. And they 

Lily: sort of have this, recurring conversation about, the difference between a lie and dissembling.

Cole: Yeah, exactly. 

Lily: much like the game. 

Cole: Is it part of the game to, like, make them I'm not sure if they can trust you. Yeah. 

Lily: part of it is putting someone on edge. Yeah. So it's sort of the war between the two, like making someone feel uncomfortable and put off and then making them feel comfortable or sort of feeling like they need to impress you.

Oh gosh. Yeah, it's 

Cole: manipulative as heck. What's, yeah, so what do you call it when you're trying to build a connection with someone? Because Croden's like, you and I, we have a lot in common. We're both alone, isolated, shut out, 

Lily: think they just have some terrible acronym for it, like, comfort building, or, [00:34:00] CB or something, like, yeah. Gross. It's like, you know, interacting with a human being. 

Cole: Exactly. Well, Odo's not totally falling for it. He's seeing how Croden's story keeps shifting. now Croden's saying there only used to be changelings on his home world, and they were persecuted and driven out But he claims to know where there's still some left in hiding, and he's happy to take Odo there himself. But, uh, you know, he can't tell Odo how to get there, he'd have to take him there. 

Lily: Seems pretty convenient. Oh, one of the things that Croden says is, We are both aliens here, the only ones of our kind.

 Yeah. Creating this sense that Only I can understand 

Cole: you when you're going through it. Yeah, that's definitely a maneuver. I'm the only one who really understands your pain. Yeah, because I'm in the same boat. Yep, yep, yep. You and me, we're cut from the same cloth. You and me, baby.

Take those pants off. 

Lily: Odo knows the guy's lying, right? But he's sort of desperate 

Cole: for it to be the truth. Odo's not falling for it, but he is so hungry for any leads on who his people are. And again, isn't it interesting, these [00:35:00] things that Croden's saying about changelings.

Spoiler alert, but a lot of them are actually accurate. Saying that they were persecuted and driven out and in hiding. Baroda says, next time you lie to me, I'll save Arkel the trouble of killing you. The truth isn't in you. Ooh. I kind of like that line.

Yeah? The truth isn't in you. But then, Croden reveals that that's more than just a, fancy accessory around his neck. up his locket and it morphs into a shape just like Odogu. 

Lily: Alright, I'm going to stop you right there and I'm going to quickly talk about the prop bag in the rules of the game.

Alright, so the idea of the prop bag is this crazy thing where these pickup artists would take Like, a whole bag full of shit to the club, to pick up women, with just like a plethora of items that they would use as like ice breakers okay. Or potential ways to neg someone. So there'd be obvious things like a pack of gum or whatever.

But then there's the more manipulative things, like they would take a bit of, lint from you know, like a dryer, and keep it in there. hand. Oh, yeah, and one [00:36:00] of the other things they're into is like, sleight of hand magic 

Cole: Yes, yes, yes, I mean that checks out. Creeps and their magic.

Lily: And then they would pretend that there was like a piece of lint on the woman's dress. Oh, gosh. And then be like, oh, how long was that there? 

Cole: So that's some grade A 

Lily: nagging. Exactly. But with the props. But then there'd be other things like One of the popular things is like a set of runes, because they were into astrology and stuff.

So it's just like these things to capture someone's interest. mean, I will say, 

Cole: You've used the prop bag. No, I just think unexpected icebreaker goes a long way, and I almost appreciate someone who brings a conversation starter rather than the, you know, come here often. Can I buy you a drink? Give me something interesting to talk about.

I'd love to talk about runes. I'm hooked. I. O. I. right here. 

Lily: So, for all the fans who wanna get Cole into bed, you heard it here first. Talk rune to me, baby. Get your runes, uh, but that lint, thing, negging doesn't work. Yeah. the other thing they would bring was like a [00:37:00] blacklight.

Oh gosh, what? So, like, show off dandruff and lint 

Cole: on the person's clothes. Okay, so I don't think we've defined negging yet people. Negging, 

Lily: okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, 

Cole: what do you think it is? so, my understanding is it's, Sort of gently insulting someone to make them feel insecure, put them on their back foot, it's like a, Thinly veiled compliment insult.

 Like a disguised insult to make someone feel worse 

Lily: about themselves. Sort of a way to destabilize them, invalidate them, but not so much that they hate you, just enough that potentially they feel like they need to impress you. apparently in the book there's like a diagram of a woman's body and it points out all the different things you can neg her about.

Oh my gosh! A lot of it is to do with, clothes or hair or whatever. And I've remembered two that happened to me in my early 20s. So one of them is to say to a woman, Oh, is that a wig? Oh, well it looks good anyway. Oh my god. You know what, someone said that to me, but I full on took it as a compliment.

was like, Someone thinks that my bob is so sleek that it looks like a wig? Fuck 

Cole: yeah! [00:38:00] It's not the strongest neg, it's like your hair looks amazing. 

Lily: But it, you know, some women would take that as fancy thing. Okay, the other one is, to say to a woman, Oh, I like your shoes, they look really comfortable.

Cole: Yeah. But I'm like 

Lily: I love comfortable shoes. Yeah. I take pride in wearing comfortable 

Cole: shoes. Thank you for acknowledging that I'm a practical person. Again, these 

Lily: things are not negs to me. I'm like, thanks. And then I don't feel any need to prove myself to you. I'm like, Oh, that was a nice compliment.

Cole: And just think if they'd successfully insulted you. I might've gotten lucky that night. Maybe. 

Lily: Cause that's the way to my heart. 

Cole: I was at this party in grad school where I swear someone had just finished reading The Game and they were ready to practice. Yes, tell me. this guy, I'm just chatting to him and he's like, well. You're not getting any younger, are you? And I can see your hairlines receding, and you've put on a little weight, and you're a little awkward, so you should probably come have a dance with me.

Whoa! 

Lily: You can't lay it on that thick, dude. You just keep one insult. God! But I actually 

Cole: felt sorry for him. [00:39:00] Like, he was trying so hard to neg, and it was just hilarious. Because, like, I mean, I'll give him awkward, but the rest of it, please. He's got a 

Lily: beautiful head of hair. Wow. 

Cole: I'm just like, buddy, that's not how it works.

Bring a blacklight. 

Lily: Show me my dandruff if you really want to have sex 

Cole: with me. A 

Lily: But yeah, anyway, so the prop bag, I guess my argument is that this is one of the tactics that he's got this item that is like the icebreaker that really pulls Odo into him, and creates a sense of interest between them.

I mean 

Cole: the guy has literally one possession in this whole world and he knows how to use it. He does. I'll give him that. But I, is it bad that I'm now considering bringing some =interesting props to the next mixer I go to? It is bad, Cole. But I'm so sick of talking about where I'm from. Sure.

Like, oh, you're from America, Donald Trump is a person, um. Oh man. Look, 

Lily: I guess that the reason that the game was so popular is that it is, just incredibly [00:40:00] awkward, this interaction to have with strangers the first time you meet them. So it, makes sense that someone would want to, systematize this way of interacting with people in this totally unnatural 

Cole: environment.

If you have to have awkward small talk, you may as well have some interesting icebreakers. Sure. Is it Haroon? Maybe. 

Lily: Is it your top hat that you are wearing and doff 

Cole: to people? I want to be clear, I am not wearing a top hat. Just let's, lest there be any confusion. And I am. And you look great in it. Thanks. 

Anyways. Odo's interest is through the roof now, and Croden gives him this prop as sort of an act of good faith. He says, you don't believe me? Check out my shape shifting 

Lily: locket. And look, the real reason he's interested in it is for its shape shifting qualities. Right. 

Cole: so in the Gamma Quadrant, Dax have made it to Rakkar, where Crodan's from.

Um, third time's a charm, Sisko, you got this first contact thing. They hail the planet. Just having 

Lily: the most terrible luck 

Cole: with first contact. they hail the planet, and the [00:41:00] moment Sisko mentions Crodan, they instantly get a response. imagine the efficiency of some planet with, I don't know, billions of people and you just go to orbit and you're like, Hey, we've got, we've got Lily, and you're like, seconds.

Oh, Lily, have you? We're the head of arresting Lily.

Very efficient planet. But the guy who responds is extremely curt. Oh, he's a cranky bitch. He demands the immediate return of Croden, an enemy of the Rakari people. I do 

Lily: not know what kind of people you are and I do not care to know.

Cole: Buddy. Again, poor Sisko, he just 

Lily: wants to make friends. Can we just quickly talk about Sisko's pronunciation of the word homicide? Tell me. Homicide. 

Cole: You know, it's funny because his biggest credit before this was, uh, Homicide, Life on the Streets. 

Lily: Oh, that's where he landed, I guess. Oh, so the hair of all these aliens is just across the board terrible.

Cole: like, explosion in the wig factory. The guy's like, I don't care what he did, give him to [00:42:00] us, and I promise you his punishment will be appropriate to your crime as well as ours. If your society purports to respect the rules of ours, you will return him without delay. it's almost the exact same dilemma Sisko was in in Captive Pursuit.

Exactly, yeah. Right? these people who are like, if you respect our culture, you'll give us this person and he'll be dealt with. We will then kill them or do something terrible. It sounds rough. Yeah. And Sisko's uncomfortable, but guess what? But he promises them that they'll get Croden in two days time.

It's a prime directive. What are Ugh. Um, yeah. Dax looks horrified. Sisko looks of sheepish. Yeah. Look, it's 

Lily: not a great moment for Starfleet, is it? 

Cole: But he's, doing his job as a diplomat. That's what you gotta do. It's weird because Star Trek's always been about making the humanitarian choice. And Sisko, again and again, has to make the non humanitarian choice. And that's the realities of the Frontier. Or does he? I mean, I think it's actually debatable if Sisko had to do this. Because we are on the Frontier, and who are the rules? justice?

I think he's still answering to a higher power. They did not have to go all the way to this planet and ignore all the [00:43:00] evidence that there's this authoritarian state and say, Hey, we will. Handed this guy back to a really terrifying Justice system. Yeah, he did not have to do that. Look, this 

Lily: is something that comes up a lot in Deep Space Nine, isn't it?

Yeah, it's one of the recurring themes. 

Cole: It makes you sort 

Lily: of uncomfortable. Um, I'm gonna pour us both a little bit more, and then I'm gonna put it in the fridge. It's actually 

Cole: much better cold. Very wise. Much like revenge. Mmm. It's best served cold. well back on the station, Bashir takes a look at this locket and confirms he's only seen one life form that even remotely resembles it. Guess what? It's Odo. It's Odo. He says, in a way, this stone might qualify as a distant cousin of yours. So Odo goes straight back to the holding cell, demands to know where Croden got it from.

and we get another, Hannibal Lecter, dissembling back and forth. He keeps trying to play this, the two of us, we understand each other, and Odo says, I feel nothing for you but contempt, you're a thief and a killer, and who knows what else. that's when I really started to make the connection with [00:44:00] my, favorite novel turned musical.

Oh! Tell me more! That's another hint. Newsies! Sorry, . this certain law man who sees someone who's committed a crime is nothing more but a thief. Sure. And a killer and who knows what else? Uh, miserable that's so obvious it 

Lily: was right 

Cole: there. Oto is such a jave in a lot of ways, this rigidity to upholding the law. and look. 

Lily: To be fair, two characters in Les Mis are just edging the whole way through the plot. 

Cole: Yeah, why are Javert and Valjean so obsessed with each other? Like, 

Lily: are you like obsessed with me?

Cole: Wow. all Crodan says is he found the stone on an asteroid in a nebula called the Chamra Vortex. That's the name of the episode, Vortex. Sure. the Vortex is uncharted, but as a thief and a killer and who knows what else, Crodan hid there often and he knows his way back. 

Lily: And I would argue in this scene,[00:45:00] he implements some soul gazing.

Cole: lot of deep eye contact. Crota knows just what he's doing. It's so 

Lily: funny that these guys thought this was some like psychological trick, like hypnosis to just look into someone's eyes to build a connection with them. Like, eye contact. They're like, ooh, deploy this tactic.

Cole: Eye contact. But effective, right? It is. And some people need to be told very basic 

Lily: things like that. Oh my god, you are like the game apologist. 

Cole: All I'm saying is just because someone says some problematic things doesn't make them wrong about other things. 

Lily: It's true. It's just silly. Soul gazing, Cole.

Soul 

Cole: gazing. Again, I read the first chapter of the game, and the guy talks about his track record, like the number of beautiful young women who he's bedded. Sure. And so obviously something works about this, and even if it's just talking about your runes as you stare into someone's eyes, it's amazing how desperately [00:46:00] hungry some people are for some form of connection.

I guess, uh And feeling like they're seen. The 

Lily: argument that can be made is that, Women have a sex drive, and that it's, less, condoned by society to admit that. So it sort of creates this, permission for both people to have sex. I think that's sort of the argument that can be made, that women actually do want to sleep with men.

so to make this interaction sort of easier between the two. 

Cole: 

Even the very outdated idea, that the man has to hit on the woman, and so if women feel like they're not even allowed to start the conversation and they're just waiting for creepy ass men to come up and talk to them.

Lily: Totally, and I think it still exists. Yeah, this idea that, Men want sex and want to take it, and women, for them, sex is something that they give away. 

 When I lived in Norway, housemates were a British woman and an American woman, And they were really thrown off whenever we went to a bar because the script was flipped and women were meant to approach men?

Cole: Yeah. And men very politely just sort of [00:47:00] waited, but then these women who are feminist and confident and amazing had just come from a culture where They expected men to be leering at them and talking to them, and in the absence of that, felt destabilized. .

Like, no one's even acknowledging me. Like, have I suddenly gotten ugly? Well, the script didn't exist for them, did it? Exactly. . So, I guess these scripts get really, really entrenched. We buy into them whether we want to or not. 

Lily: I think we can all agree that meeting people in bars is the worst way to 

Cole: meet people. 

So Sisko gets back from, the Gamma Quadrant and assigns Odo the task of escorting Croden back to his home planet.

And you can tell Odo's not really sure how he feels about that. 

Lily: Yeah, like this guy's got something that maybe he 

Cole: wants, deep down. Yeah, he'd really started to get invested in this. And Sisko says, Hey, When you're out there in the Gamma Quadrant, you'll be on your own.

We won't be able to look out for you. You're gonna be off grid out in the wild, wild west. Yeah. 

Lily: But it's interesting that, Once you're in the Gamma Quadrant, you'll be on your own. But, really we come to find out that's where Odo's people are from. 

Cole: Whoa. And Croden keeps suggesting, aren't you already on your own?

[00:48:00] Yeah. Mm. So, yeah, Odo brings this guy onto the, the runabout, and a little hopeful. He's like, oh, have you taken me up on my offer? And Odo says, I'm taking you home. Ooh. And you can tell Croden is not, happy about this. He's like, 

Lily: uh, all those seminars I paid for with pickup artists.

It's not working. Waste of money. Not working. Goddamn you, Tom 

Cole: Cruise. And then they manage to sneak away from the station without the Miradorn noticing by hiding behind another ship. Sure. A little sneaky sneaky. And they sneak into the Gamma Quadrant. Yeah.

So. These two, you know, riding on horseback in the wild, wild frontier. 

Lily: And they're just on their own and it is prime.

Real estate for some negging. 

Cole: Yeah, it's negging o'clock. It's neg city. Croden's like, admit it, you're not happy. Aren't you just a square peg trying to fit into a round hole? I mean, I know you're a shapeshifter, but come on. 

Lily: and Odo says, well I'm as much a part of the place as anyone else.

But Croden says, they tolerate you. But you're not one 

Cole: of them. And if [00:49:00] ever Neg! That is Negging 101. And Odo 

Lily: is hearing it. 

Cole: But he's like, I finally figured out what crime you're guilty of. You talk too much. That's great. Classic Odo. 

Lily: But hey, this guy's a polygamist. Tell 

Cole: me about that. Yeah, so tell me what tactic he uses now. He says, you want to know my crime? And then he tells a very dark tale about how one night the state police raided his home, murdered both of his wives. calling him an enemy of the people. And then Croden slit the throats of the security officers.

Lily: Yeah, so he uses knife that he uses to cut the necks of the fowl and that it sounded exactly the same as cutting their necks. Yeah, 

Cole: so what is he up to here?

I mean. He's trying so hard to even be unlikable. He's admitting to how cold blooded this murder was in a 

Lily: way. And Odo does not fly with murder. He's said that straight up. He just has no time for 

Cole: murderers. Yeah, so I feel like this guy is just starting to throw all the tricks of the book that he can.

He's getting 

Lily: desperate. But there's, is it the [00:50:00] truth? Is he telling a tall tale? he's still seeking sympathy in a way, you know. 

Cole: And he's leaning so hard into this charming thing. And 

Lily: if you were better dressed and better looking, maybe. 

Cole: He's doing such a terrible job of building trust.

Um, shout out to Rene Auberjonois. Yeah. even just sitting in the background listening to this tale, he conveys so much just with a turn of his head. Without 

Lily: even a face on him. Yeah. 

Cole: Yeah, he's a great actor. You can tell he's horrified by this story. Yeah. well, trouble for Quark back on the station. The Miradorn has found out Croden's no longer in detention, and he comes in and roughs Quark up for answers.

He shovels his face into a pile of latinum. Oof, his own latinum. This is a nice directorial flair. Yeah, I liked it. Shoving your face into a pile of gold. It gave me sort of the good, the bad, and the ugly vibes. 

Ah, 

Quark is terrified for his life, and so he helps Achel hack into the security files, where Achel finds the coordinates for where Odo is headed, and he flies off pursuit. 

Lily: Prop watch for worst props. 

Cole: But 

Lily: this little security, the security chips look [00:51:00] like brown test tubes. 

Cole: You see them a few times on this series.

they're so much bigger than, like USB ports. Yeah, 

Lily: They kind of look like cigarillos. 

Cole: Yeah. . 

Lily: I had a friend who used to smoke cigarillos as like a bit. 

Cole: That was their top hat. Oh my 

Lily: God, she was peacocking.

Cole: That was her top hat. 

Lily: And people would be like, what is that? what are you doing? Oh, I'm so glad you asked. Do you want to sleep with me? I'm a 20 year old woman smoking a skinny cigar. 

Cole: Hey. These tricks are timeless. Sure. and then there's a nice little Odo Quark bromance moment. Oh, yeah.

Because Rom , gets really excited. He's like, oh brother, now will kill Odo and Croden for us. And Quark's actually really worried that Yeah. He's spelled Odo's doom. 

Lily: And he seems really dismayed because he knows Odo would let himself get killed rather than give up a prisoner. Because he knows Odo so well!

Cole: I think it's the most surface we've seen the affection Quark has for Odo. Yeah, he doesn't 

Lily: want it to happen. Yeah. Oh, these two. These two! [00:52:00] Oh, will they, won't they? They won't. 

Cole: So, the Miradorn's cool looking villainous ship flies off into the Gamma Quadrant, it's got some cool knife like claws, that's maybe the one cool design like element I liked out of this. Is that where the budget 

Lily: went? 

Cole: Okay, cool. Yeah, so then, meanwhile, the Ganges has come upon the Vortex, and isn't that just gorgeous? Oh yeah. It's got like hot pinks and purple pastels. Yeah, it's 

Lily: the most beautiful thing in this episode. It truly is. Um, peacocking, am 

Cole: I right? That nebula is peacocking hard. And it's working. it's, uh, it's a little vintage.

It's a reuse of a nebula from Star Trek II, The Wrath of Khan. Oh. They just like flipped it upside down and redyed its colors. Ah, cute. Ah, cute. Made new again. Exactly. We love some vintage. We Croden, he's like, you know, we'd save a lot of time if we went through the vortex, not around it. Maybe we'd even bump into some of your changeling 

Lily: peeps.

Oh, and it's more manipulation. Dangling something in front of him that he 

Cole: wants. And then [00:53:00] he, it's sort of the opposite of negging. He's like, on my world the changelings were considered a proud species. They refused to assimilate. They treated me with decency and justice. 

Lily: No, but this is, a crucial negging.

Yeah. So you neg first. But then you validate 

Cole: them afterwards. Oh, like, you're a garbage person, but I see through that, and I still accept you. See, that's also what the guy in grad school failed. He just laughed at me being like old and balding and fat. Just told you you were trash and 

Lily: garbage, and then you were like, okay.

Cole: I'm waiting. 

Lily: And? 

Cole: But BAM! This conversation is over because their ship is under attack by those Miradorn!

Odo predictably refuses to give up his prisoner, and Achel says, well then you may die too. Oh! 

 They're Miradorns are thugs. At least this one maybe 'cause he's lost his twin and he's going crazy. But he's out for blood. He is. Blood will have blood. so, the ship's under attack. That's a quote from, 

Lily: Macbeth.

Cole: Oh. Thank you. I thought we were gonna get through a whole episode without Shakespeare and I was sad. 

 So, Odo's panicking, and you know why. [00:54:00] His hair is starting to flip flop around. Odo, physics alert. Why hair flip flopping whenever he's stressed? Whoa. 

Lily: Maybe he can't control his goopy goops. when he's, in a mood. 

Cole: Sure, but his goopy goop would not function the way my moose does on a sweaty day.

I've had that kind of bad hair day and I'm a humanoid. 

Lily: Look, it's just bad hair day all around. It 

Cole: really is. Croden seizes on this chance and convinces Odo that the only way to is is right into that vortex.

You better let me pilot, cause I know the terrain. And so they, go into the Vortex. The Miradorn chases after them. And then Croden says, Ah, the only way we'll truly lose them is to land our runabout on an asteroid. and maybe we'll meet your people after all, Odo.

What a handy coincidence. Or is it? Is he dissembling? 

Lily: but he does also say in this scene, sometimes I do tell the truth. Right. But which 

Cole: times? So he admits to being a liar. It's a weird tactic. it work when you're hitting on someone to be like, half of what [00:55:00] I'm telling you is a lie and it's up for you?

You know, let's play two truths and a lie constantly. Yes. Has it worked on you? I'm intrigued. I would find it so off putting. I don't mind the mystery Give me just some earnest connection. Really? Yeah. Really? Yeah. Okay. 

Lily: Maybe I'm into manipulative people.

Cole: a Do you need more wine? 

Yes, please. So, little analogy here, if people who are playing the game are trying to get to home base, I guess Croden has just successfully landed his runabout, you know what I'm saying? He's touched down on that home asteroid. That is a home 

Lily: run, he did it! That is. me his dick 

Cole: wet.

Sorry. down on the surface of the asteroid. Crodan leaps out of the runabout runs off, saying, Follow me, the colony's just over here. Quick, 

Lily: come to this amazing set that's being 

Cole: built. They're in some caves, Do you think they just leave the cavern set up all the time? It's so good.

This is when Odo really [00:56:00] knows he's been duped. He pins Croden down and says, just be real with me. How much of it was true? And none. Croden's ready to confess. And he's like, look, I've never met a single changeling. I've heard some stories, but I thought they were all myths. 

Lily: I mean, that's something.

Cole: But Croden says, look, I'm only here because my only reason for living is here. Odo, I think he's just curious enough at this point that he goes and sees what that reason is.

 it's a static chamber with a young girl inside. It's Croden's daughter. Some of the producers, when this story was pitched, they're like, Mmm, I'm not sure playing the, like, innocent girl card is gonna land. And guess what? It doesn't really. It doesn't. It's blah. It's real blah. I even checked, TV Tropes for if there's a name for it.

It was Human Cargo, and he's actually doing all this for love. Like in, 

Lily: Joss Whedon. 

Cole: Firefly. yeah. 

Lily: And they always talk about something that's like really [00:57:00] precious or a treasure without 

Cole: it's a human life.

And it's, echoing the twinned Miradorn. The only thing worth living for is your family, your loved ones. So the shape shifting locket morphs into a key, and it's actually a key to the static chamber. And this little girl wakes up and says, Father, I was dreaming about you. Lame.

Lame. But then boom, boom! The Miradoren have tracked them down and they've got to back to the shuttle. That's when some rocks fall on Odo and knock him out.

Um, Odo physics alert. 

Lily: Yeah, does that happen? Isn't he made of 

Cole: goo? This actually infuriated the most people online. They're like, you can't knock out a changeling. And Croden has this moral quandary moment where he has a chance to escape and leave Odo behind and escape the brutal authoritarian R'kari La.

But he's holding his innocent daughter in his arms and he knows he has to go back and pick Odo up. Yeah. And he drags him back to the runabout. Gotta pick him up. Sorry. Pfft. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha [00:58:00] ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Now it's home base.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha 

Lily: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Uh, that's the end of my TED Talk, everyone. Uh 

Cole: huh. All right, so he saves Odo. Do you think he just didn't want to look like a bad person in front of his daughter, or do you think he had actual affection for Odo? Do you think it's worth examining this?

Um, 

Lily: I think it's interesting. let's give some credit to the character. I think that he decides 

Cole: to do the right thing. I mean, obviously the fact that he's got a daughter who he's trying to save tells the audience that he's a good person. And this is just further evidence that he's a good person.

Cause if you have children then you're a good person. being a parent, I mean, parents are better than us, Lily. Oh, forgot, sorry. 

 Awakens back on the runabout. back in the vortex.

You could have left me behind, he says. Croden says, Don't thank me. already regret it. Now this is when the Javert thing really drops for me. Right? This guy is rescued by the prisoner who he is hell bent on bringing to justice. Yeah. And his entire moral compass, his entire value system.

 Just [00:59:00] crumbles. Yeah. It's like, this actually doesn't make any sense anymore. You bad, 

Lily: but you act 

Cole: good? What? Yeah. And Odo is just as baffled as Javert. Okay, well not just as baffled, because Javert kills himself. But, he's baffled. Jesus. they still have to escape those darn Nereidorn.

And so they use some tricky flying to lure the Miradorn into some pocket of explosives. And so, I love that thing of when good guys trick a bad guy into killing themselves. Like they didn't fire the Miradorn, but they got the Miradorn to fire in such a way that they blew themselves up. It's classic, like, oops, did I do that?

Lily: as a thought experiment, I feel like you're still, Responsible, but anyway. 

Cole: Totally. But, you know, every Disney villain dies at their own hand, right? Accidentally, yeah. They fall off a cliff, or they, don't watch where they're going. Yeah. Anyways, that happens to the Miradorn.

So, bye bye, butt faced Miradorn. May you rest in peace, truly. And your 

Lily: weird silver diaper gave me no pleasure. 

Cole: sparked no joy.[01:00:00] So then The runabout flies away from that gorgeous, pastel pink and purple nebula.

and this is when things get a little awkward. Croden says, well, I know I still have to face justice, but Odo, you'll raise my daughter for me, right? Wow. 

Lily: Like, way to 

Cole: assume. I mean, first you get the guy in bed, and then you, uh, make him raise your child, right? 

Lily: It's classic rules of the game. Classic 

Cole: game.

yeesh, this is awkward. And just then, Deus Ex Machina, if ever there was one, before Odo can answer, they're hailed by a Vulcan science vessel. And when this Vulcan scientist pops up on screen, she's really beautifully rendered as that, safe refuge at the end of a harrowing ordeal.

I thought it was a nice directing touch. Like, just looking at her, you know that everything's gonna work out. Everything's gonna be okay. 

 This, beautiful Vulcan is dressed in Regal Blue.

Oh my god, I didn't even look at her 

Lily: outfit, it's amazing! 

Cole: She's gorgeous and she's, She's a winter. She's in front of this blue background with the, um, you know that [01:01:00] IDIC symbol? No. This is some Trek nerdness, but it goes back to the original series. It stands for infinite diversity and infinite combinations.

And it's the core Vulcan philosophy that diversity is good. And so this goddess says, come to me with your strange aliens and you will be safe. 

Lily: And she's got some beautiful gold gear on her suit. Right? 

Cole: some Vulcan writing. It's a Vulcan script. 

Lily: God, it looks great. Finally, some fashion. 

Cole: Kind of my favorite part of the whole episode.

Yeah, so now Odo says, hey, I just rescued these two people from an explosion in the nebula. Can you take them with you back to Vulcan? An outright lie. Odo is learning a thing or two about how to play the 

Lily: game. Yeah, and he says this dissembling might be catching.

And he's using the jargon of his guy that's been playing him. Dissembling instead of lying. He's lying. He's straight up lying. 

Cole: Is this growth for Odo? Could be. Yeah. So then he says, Hey, don't worry about it. I'll tell your home planet that you died in that explosion. [01:02:00] and, I mean, for a Javert, a rigid Sheriff , to let a murderer walk free is Massive unexpected character moment. Yeah. it is what Javert does So, in the book and the musical, lets Javert go, just like Croden saved Odo's life.

and then later, Javert corners Valjean. but He doesn't have it in him to haul him off to jail because this guy had given him grace before. And so Odo's faced with the same choice. How can I send someone to their doom who's just saved my life? And just like Javert, he lets the guy go. And his moral code will never be the same.

Lily: And, uh, in that moment, Croden has taught Odo. The rules of the game.

Cole: Before Croden leaves, he says, Well, maybe someday we'll both be able to go home. And, gives Odo as a gift, that key, that locket. 

Lily: Yeah, take my prop.

Enjoy 

Cole: the game, sir. Passing on [01:03:00] the baton. 

Lily: But you know who's not gonna like living on Vulcan? 

Cole: Crodan? Crodan. 

Lily: Manipulative, lying, emotional, like this is his personal hell. 

Cole: Oh no, I hadn't thought of that. the daughter asks Odo if he's really a changeling, and Odo embraces the term. He says, I suppose I am. And then, 

Lily: the first time in the series, he smiles, and it's creepy and we hate it. It's so creepy. Don't do it. The 

Cole: first time we ever see Odo smile, turns out it was the actor, Rene's, suggestion.

Eww. Rene Auberjonois says, A smile is sort of a gift that Odo gives only on very special occasions. 

Lily: Oh, no, I'd like to return the gift. 

Cole: They actually filmed it two different ways. One with a smile and one without, just in case it looked super creepy. And it did! But it did, and they kept it. What happened?

I think it's for the actor, it was a big character moment. He also says that Odo has a soft spot for kids. so it's showing He does! Yeah, he really does. Yeah! 

Lily: No, [01:04:00] you've already seen this in the series with 

Cole: Jake. Yeah! 

Lily: Good call. 

Cole: So, he has just let a murderer run free, and he's alone on the runabout, and he stares at this locket, this distant cousin of his, and he says, Home. Where is it? Someday we'll know, Cousin. Maybe not necessary to have spelled that out. Maybe we could have just had a moment of silence.

Lily: I actually Was hoping he would just say home as like a question, but a statement is Deep Space Nine home Where is home? And then he kept going. Oh, and it just kept getting worse. Where is it? Someday we'll know cousin. 

Cole: Someday we'll find it A rainbow I 

Lily: love that song.

Keep going with your Muppet. 

Cole: lovers, the dreamers, and me. Yeah, cause Odo's talking to the computer and he says, set a course for the wormhole. Yeah. Home. Home. And you're 

Lily: like, oh, what's home? And it would have been beautiful. End it there. But they can't. They 

Cole: just can't. [01:05:00] DS9 is guilty of, uh, spelling things out a little too much.

Dead horsing. Yeah. So there you go. Odo's got some nice clues. Odo now knows to call himself a changeling. 

Lily: Yeah, we get that term for the rest of the series. 

Cole: And we know he likes kids and we know that he should never smile again. 

Lily: We all know that. 

. but it was a character exercise to know that Odo's not as rigid as, we're led to think he is. I guess that's the point.

Cole: What do you make of the fact that a shapeshifter is so rigid in his moral code? 

Lily: I mean, I guess it's like their joke to themselves, isn't it? 

Cole: Yeah, I guess so. , 

Lily: you can't, make this guy malleable with his opinions, or can you? Just throw in a child, then 

Cole: he'll do whatever. I mean, if you wanted to overanalyze it, which I love to do.

Sure. If you don't know who you are, where you came from, and it's just you against the world, you have to hold on to something. And I guess Odo clings to his Principles. His principles of right and wrong. Yeah. Because that's sort of all he's got. Yeah. And I guess over the [01:06:00] course of the series, as his friendships deepen, he, gets a little more lax He discovers the grey area.

Exactly, 

We love some autogrowth, he rides off into the sunset, and Lily and I finish our rosé. 

Lily: And the best thing about this episode, I've got to say, was the rosé. Agreed. 

Cole: episode. It's got stakes.

 It should work. I think so much depended on Croden as, so much depended on us falling for Croden and his game does not work. And 

Lily: you can't have two drab people. him and Odo are both pretty.

Such drab characters that you needed one of them to be extra, like Quark, that's 

Cole: I was actually thinking, if Croden had frankly, a better fashion. Yeah. If he had had this fly suit on. Yeah. Or been just attractive. Yeah. Would this episode have worked better?

Lily: Absolutely. Yeah. I think he just needed to be way more charismatic. whether that means having, I don't know, An elaborate cane that he swings around or a top hat 

He's almost charming.

You can see what [01:07:00] they're trying to do and it's just not coming across. Yep What about the western?

feel about that? 

Cole: for me, it, helps me understand what they were trying to do with this episode. And I love seeing DS9 as the frontier. The whole thing about a Western is, it's just you and, the wild.

. Mm hmm. There's no civilization. There's no civilization to run to for help. you're at the mercy of whoever you come across and it's a good set up for stories. That's why the Western genre is so popular. Yeah. 

 The plot of the film, The Naked Spur, is we need to bring this guy to justice. But apparently, there's all these different characters, and they're all trying to get the, the bounty money on his head. And then some Native Americans show up, and they're trying to kill this guy for some grievance.

Cole: So it's all there, but it's mostly just what happens when you're forced to spend time alongside a dubious character. 

Lily: The enemies to friends trope. Enemies to lovers trope. 

Like, one of your most hated films when Harry met Sally. 

 Like, we're 

Lily: so different and we'll never each other and I hate you, but, by the end of this, we'll understand each other and perhaps 

Cole: love each other.

And the, two people [01:08:00] traveling format is its own genre, right? Yeah, yeah, Forced proximity. Forced proximity is huge. Yeah. 

 But in conclusion, Dress for Success. Yeah. Make Croden look snappy, and we're there. 

Lily: That's my note for the writers. 

Cole: I have Fashion Watch. Fashion Watch, let's go! Definitely that gorgeous nebula. 

Lily: Yes, there's no question.

beautiful colors, bit of throwback, some vintage, we love that, some vintage couture. 

Cole: Some kind of Barbie playfulness. Yeah, 

Lily: Like, don't be afraid to have fun with fashion, that's what I say. 

Cole: That nebula was having fun. 

Lily: and then I guess runner up is 

Cole: Vulcan.

She was, she made me feel 

Lily: safe. She made me feel safe. The royal blue, the gold embellishments. Great haircut, beautiful cheekbones. 

 There were just so many fashion don'ts though. 

Cole: It just made me feel sad. Exactly.

Lily: Like, I'm begging for a peacock here. 

Cole: It was a complete absence of anything to make my eyes care about until we saw that nebula and I think that's where Vortex. That was the real Vortex.

That was the [01:09:00] real Vortex. Oh yeah, is there anything else to the title? I kind of saw Odo being sucked into the Vortex of Croden's game. I think so, 

Lily: and I guess maybe the Vortex of Loneliness? Oof. 

Cole: Yeah, both the Miradorn twin and Odo were so desperately lonely that it pulled them into dangerous, risky behavior. Mm. 

 Alright, well, Any other thoughts? 

Lily: Are you going to read the game? 

Cole: Oh, yeah. Conclusion. 

Lily: Are you off to buy some runes tomorrow? 

Cole: So I'm thinking about my prop bag for the next night I go out. Sure, tell me. I thought maybe I could bring um A little podcast mic. Oh, this old thing? I was just recording my Star Trek 

Lily: Works every time. Like 

Cole: maybe a little Star Trek communicator. Sure. Coal to Enterprise, 2 to beam up. That could be a fun gag. 

Lily: Yeah, Ooh, I've just remembered, I had been to a club and someone pulled out a pear and said, This should be us.

Cole: Like a pun? P A I R? 

Lily: They had the fruit. A pair. 

Cole: Like we should be a pair. Yeah. [01:10:00] Yeah. Wow. And did it work? No. Like it was so bad. Your opening gambit is a pun that needs a prop. But this is the game, mate. Your pickup line is a prop. Pun. Yeah. This is the game.

What? Yeah. 

Okay. What does work for you? 

Lily: I don't know, like, I guess, I have been dating someone for a long time, so I don't do that anymore. the time I suppose what I was hoping for is what you're hoping for, which is just to have a connection with someone.

and just speak about real things. but that's not really 

Cole: how it goes, is it? 

Lily: And I think that's the thing. I think that's the point of modern dating that I think still exists. Maybe the game doesn't exist and maybe we're sort of beyond those kinds of concepts because they seem quite trite now.

But, The idea that this thing is gamified, that it's something that you have to win, that it's something that you can't show vulnerability with. Well, and 

Cole: maybe, MAYBE, Dudes are realizing that they can't openly talk about trying to score with women? 

Lily: Honestly my experience with casual dating was that most hetero men actually wanted intimacy and wanted a 

Cole: [01:11:00] connection.

Of course, everyone does. As we learned from this episode, all that gorilla Miradorn wanted was his little brother back. I didn't feel sorry for that guy. He was just trying to sell a Faberge egg. They just had this 

Lily: sweet Faberge egg and they thought Quark was on their side. Okay, so yes, this brings me back to Quark.

Do you think that Crodan told him about his daughter? 

Cole: No. No? I think Crodan was clearly a desperate Like, Quark spotted someone who was desperate to do anything. It's like the way people fall into prostitution. Sure, the world is lame as rub. Yeah, no, exactly! Exactly! 

Crudeness Fontine saying take my daughter or razor because I can't.

Cole: That's exactly it. Yeah. 

Cole: I do need to really go pee. So I might hit stop. 

Are

Lily: And with that, we say 

Cole: goodnight. goodnight everyone and be safe out there. Yeah, thanks 

Lily: for 

Cole: joining us in this Vortex. When someone says you're not good enough or you're wearing a wig, don't believe them, you're worth it. 

Lily: And also wigs are great 

Cole: and wear those practical shoes 

Lily: practical [01:12:00] shoes are the best. Orthopedic? Heck yeah. 

Cole: And, 

we'll see you next week. Bye, everyone. Bye!